 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Carl
Location: Just beyond the firelight
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:28 am |
 |
|
| Stuart wrote: | | Nah, I don`t go wiith the edges on swords ( or axes ) - they ruin shields far too quickly ! |
oh yes, heaven forefend that my $50 shield gets damaged before my worthless flesh 
_________________
It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found |
|
|
 |
Robbo
Location: In the Tree's
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:59 pm |
|
|
*blissful sigh*
Yeah, I remember many non marshalled large fights. Everyone relying on the honesty, integrity and skill of the other side. 
Those scars show really well.
I like this idea of a graded scale btw. Can see alot of benefits to it. Only question is, without the marshal's there, what's to stop some idiot walking onto the field for fights they're not graded for, with weapons they shouldn't be using?
I only ask as my teeth still hurt me some nights, and every morning I still wake up with a mouth full of blood.
_________________
Hail the Sky Traveller |
|
|
|
Stuart
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:04 pm |
|
|
In answer to your question, I would assume that no group will field a warrior who is not trained and armoured ?
_________________
A Dane Axe beats two aces anytime. |
|
|
|
Carl
Location: Just beyond the firelight
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:52 pm |
|
|
| Stuart wrote: | | In answer to your question, I would assume that no group will field a warrior who is not trained and armoured ? |
Yeah and i have a bridge that i can sell you cheap, oh and this simple tonic made from tap water and tobasco sauce that will cure everything from the droop to galloping gangrene.
no offense Stuart but the main reason the NAAMA rules are tailored to the lowest common denominator is because of the large number of low demoninators in the world.
_________________
It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found |
|
|
|
BigMac
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:42 am |
|
|
| Stuart wrote: | | In answer to your question, I would assume that no group will field a warrior who is not trained and armoured ? |
Given that at the moment a muppet (remember Dante) can form a group, call himself captian, teach and sign off on fighters without any experiance or competance despite being a head case means that while a fighter may have been vouched safe; the reality can be very different.
A club used to have to be officially recognised at a Naama captains meeting after being evaluated by instructors from the other clubs. But this hasn't happened since 2001.
Also different clubs have differing ideas/philosophies of what is safe and what armour means.
_________________
There is a fine line between Hobby and Insanity |
|
|
|
conal
Site Admin
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:18 pm |
|
|
One would hope the common denominator is common sense.
But yes, Marshals are a necessary aspect of the sport.
Clubs come and go too. I can think of a few that aren't anymore.
And our marshalling has slipped in the past few years, last year in particular.
...but you try telling the young people of today that... and they won't believe yuh. |
|
|
|
stephan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:56 pm |
|
|
thou i agree with the concept it would take great changes in the comunity to get this as acceptted form
however what would a celt do in such a situattion?
woad dosent offer padding just magic warding against arrows |
|
|
|
Daniel Duxfield
Location: Deep in the heart of Orcland
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm |
|
|
Whenever I sparred with bokken (ryu to some) against my old mates in Auckland, we were naturally honourable about it. If you landed a cut/blow it was felt and acknowledged, as the cut/blow was often of the variety that 'in a real world situation', i.e. on the battlefield, it would've been a killing blow or enough to incapacitate the opponent.
Each fighter should be man enough to admit when they are 'hit' either by a glancing or a death blow.
We had a natural respect for each other and our skills.
To bring in a grading system would be tricky but not impossible.
Things to consider are;
-the weapons employed
-the skill level of the fighter
-the rules being adhered to
-the marshal (because you will have to have one for any kind of grading test)
-what types of blows the fighters will agree to allow or not to allow.
I think though the biggie for me is; are we going to be fighting each other with a 'battlefield' (for me this is my 'real world') mindset or one where certain blows are prohibited because of a possible, perceived risk of injury.
But isn't that why we wear armour?
When I fight, I like it to be a 'real' as possible but also safe. I will fight hard, and use whatever blow I deem necessary for that moment.
But above all I have respect for my opponent and though I will fight to 'kill', i.e. that is win, I will accept defeat at the hands of a better opponent when that happens.
Every fight is a learning experience for me. I think a grading system would be great.
It would eventually lead to balanced matches and more 'educational' experiences for everybody involved.
_________________
Long live the fighters. |
|
|
|
Carl
Location: Just beyond the firelight
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:46 pm |
|
|
| Duxfield wrote: | Whenever I sparred with bokken (ryu to some) against my old mates in Auckland, we were naturally honourable about it. If you landed a cut/blow it was felt and acknowledged, as the cut/blow was often of the variety that 'in a real world situation', i.e. on the battlefield, it would've been a killing blow or enough to incapacitate the opponent.
Each fighter should be man enough to admit when they are 'hit' either by a glancing or a death blow.
We had a natural respect for each other and our skills.
To bring in a grading system would be tricky but not impossible.
Things to consider are;
-the weapons employed
-the skill level of the fighter
-the rules being adhered to
-the marshal (because you will have to have one for any kind of grading test)
-what types of blows the fighters will agree to allow or not to allow.
I think though the biggie for me is; are we going to be fighting each other with a 'battlefield' (for me this is my 'real world') mindset or one where certain blows are prohibited because of a possible, perceived risk of injury.
But isn't that why we wear armour?
When I fight, I like it to be a 'real' as possible but also safe. I will fight hard, and use whatever blow I deem necessary for that moment.
But above all I have respect for my opponent and though I will fight to 'kill', i.e. that is win, I will accept defeat at the hands of a better opponent when that happens.
Every fight is a learning experience for me. I think a grading system would be great.
It would eventually lead to balanced matches and more 'educational' experiences for everybody involved.
|
Sheesh i wish i had a dollar for everytime this idea has been put forth as the best and newest way to do things.
In order for ANY system to work in this country the first thing that needs to be achieved is all re-enactors agreeing on one system. And it can be difficult to get more than three people in our community who can agree on anything other than the following four things;
1) Beer is good
2) meat is best when cooked
3) fighting is fun
4) sun in sky means get out of sack and find either 1, 2, or 3.
Note; i am just making fun...... Beer is GREAT!!!!
_________________
It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found |
|
|
|
BigMac
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:34 am |
|
|
| Carl wrote: |
Sheesh i wish i had a dollar for everytime this idea has been put forth as the best and newest way to do things.
In order for ANY system to work in this country the first thing that needs to be achieved is all re-enactors agreeing on one system. And it can be difficult to get more than three people in our community who can agree on anything other than the following four things;
1) Beer is good
2) meat is best when cooked
3) fighting is fun
4) sun in sky means get out of sack and find either 1, 2, or 3.
Note; i am just making fun...... Beer is GREAT!!!! |
Beer is a foul concoction. Spirits on the other hand, um what was your point again?  
_________________
There is a fine line between Hobby and Insanity |
|
|
|
Robbo
Location: In the Tree's
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:45 pm |
|
|
Duxfield,
The major difference being that in a sparring hall with bokken, you tend to find a large degree of people with honour...and a senior grade standing nearby ready to kick the snot out of someone who's not displaying a modicum of such.
On a medieval battlefield, you have a large bunch of oafs who thnk they are damn nigh indestructable. I once knocked a guy to the ground (I was very, very frustrated after hitting over a dozen times...the first time was from behind, he stopped, turned and started trying to fight me...the more I impacted on him, the harder he fought. I knocked him to the ground and yes, I should have walked away...when he got to his feet, he tried to engage me again. At THAT point I got smart and walked away)
+4 belt buckles of the Holy Defender for the win!
Some people just don't take their hits. Some people are idiots and hit too hard, or with weaponrythey shouldn't be using. SOme people are just plain fecking idiots.
I think a grading system is a great idea. The logistics are a little hairy, the trust issues just as great...then there are the people whoa re going to be well behaved in front of their judging panel, walk out onto the fied and buckle on their +4 holy defender again.
_________________
Hail the Sky Traveller |
|
|
|
Daniel Duxfield
Location: Deep in the heart of Orcland
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:53 pm |
|
|
SO to separate the men from the boys; hands up who is in the game for the love of the fight, or the re-enactment side of things, or just to look tough in your metal armour?
Me? I'm in it for the fight. I fight with honour and treat my opponent the same. Those are the people I want to fight.
Is there a way to weed out the 'dicks' from the 'genuine?'
At least the discussion on a grade system is a good start. What about a 'home grown' grading and rules system.
Too hard? Can't be frakked? Want to step up to the challenge and be productive?
_________________
Long live the fighters. |
|
|
|
PopTart
Location: Tauranga
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:05 am |
|
|
Personally, I'm in it for the both the fight, honourably of course, and the living history/re-enactment side of things. Considering how slightly built I am, for me to "look" tough in my armour could result in a rather comical/caricaturistic image! 
| Quote: | | Is there a way to weed out the 'dicks' from the 'genuine?' |
I can't help but get a rather sordid image in my head involving japanese dildoes here, sorry! But seriously, our sport (or hobby if you prefer) is unfortunately going to attract the "dicks". Hand's up all of you who have had someone asking if they can reenact an LOTR elf or Rider of Rohan?! Go on! I know there's quite a few out there!!!
It is the natural down side of what we do. You have to sift through the crap in the midden to find the good stuff. We've had a few for our club already, and we've just had to give them a chance, then "encourage" them to move on as this hobby: "obviously isn't for you".
And in terms of the home grown system, NAAMA rules were a good start, fitting on just a couple of A4 sheets. They relied on honesty, honour, common sense (see that Robbo? Just for you ), and everyone playing nice. Since then they've evolved into something that means well, but what some of us perceive as unwieldy. The point? When you have lots of opinions on a subject, you'll also have lots of disagreements.
Don't get me wrong please, I'm all for a standardised set of rules or grading system (speaking for myself here, not representing the rest of my club, just in case they have differant opinions!).
So would people like to adopt the Taupo rules as a standard? And then build up some sort of grading system around those that everyone can agree too? You could have a page linked from GD with all the grade levels on it, with a reference to show the individual club equivalents maybe?
Just a few thoughts
Willz |
|
|
|
conal
Site Admin
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:54 pm |
|
|
Mike, Which is why I will always take a fighter at his word that s/he got me.
Yup.
Willz, NAAMA as the baseline.
If they ain't gonna play nice there they ain't gonna play nice.
If there is a graduation in play I'd like to see clubs include the whole clock face rather than excluding legs and including head, then calling that an improvement.
Cause it ain't its lazy.
The best reason for reservation of the lower leg shot from headblow comes from Mr McGillan. his point was simply that lazy lower leg shots invariably track to the knee.
Exclusion of the lower leg can certainly not be excluded on any grounds proporting to represent "more realistic combat".
I've had a look at the Taupo ruleset and there's a cuple of hidden dial-ins I know I'll be exploiting.
That doesn't mean they're a bad set, just that they, like any ruleset have holes.
Respect for ones opponent should be paramount.
But I still see people fighting with rusty swords.
And when I see a rusty helm, I know I've already won.
Because they don't respect themselves.
Old man talk this, I'll stop now. |
|
|
|
Daniel Duxfield
Location: Deep in the heart of Orcland
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:04 pm |
|
|
All very valid points. Old man talk is all good, it is usually the voice of reason and experience, possibly wisdom too.
So, a grading system would have to encompass the range of basic weapon types availaible to us all. If we could use eastern martial arts as our model we can start with;
-unarmed combat (if applicable),
-basic sword drills, then incorporating the the use of shield and sword,
-spear combat (spear only and spear and shield. I'm sure the Greeks weren't the only ones to fight this way),
-knives (close combat).
I think though that the NAAMA rules may need to be adapted to suit the grading system, or vice-versa. I have some concerns about the NAAMA rules.
If we can write a new set based on the old with the adaptations required, circulate them around the many cubs and have them sign off on them and/or have them add their own adaptations (because we all fight differently).
This may take some time but the end result would be a national set of combat rules and a grading set to match.
What does everyone think?
_________________
Long live the fighters. |
|
|
|
|
|
Please read the terms of use