Fire Arrows

[Leuscreuntos]

can hold shiled, will be target

[Massey Archer]

There is a guy at the Massey Archery Club who I have spoken to recently who may have some ideas that could help. He is getting back to me. There is not a lot of data out there. Fire arrows were not used all that often, in spite of what movies may show. If it can be perfected we may be able to shoot on or two under controlled conditions but with an emergency plan.

[King of Swords]

You could make a cage like these and fill with kevlar fire wick we can get these ones I haver never been asked for them before

[Massey Archer]

Very interesting! That's somthing to think about for sure. I will think about it and I am very interested. 11:21pm is not my best thinking time.

[Stuart]

Frosty: Can you call me ?

In the meantime, obtain some fine jute rope , or cotton sash cord from a hardware store. Obtain potassium nitrate (try to find one of the rocket groups on Trade Me ..)
Mix 5-6 table spoons of this chemical in a jar of warm water and stir until desolved.
Cut about on one foot of the sash cord and steep it in the solution overnight. Allow to try, then light. That will give you a slo-match.
Check the burning time, and see if it this hot enough for firearrows.
-if not, then decant a cup full of the potassium nitrate solution and add three spoonsful of fine flowers of sulpher to it. Steep another length of sash cord.
Set to dry, then check the burn rate. It will be faster and hotter. The old name for this is fire match.
If you find the right combination of chemicals and cord, make up a yard or two and work up your fire arrows.
Make sure you store your slow-match or fire match in a sealed plastic container. It absorbs water.

Be aware that it is also a fire-hazard, and must be kept out of the sun and in a cool place.

Cheers,

Stuart.

[Merlin of the Fens]

I have noted the discussion on fire arrows. Here is a recipe used successfully by the SCA in Canada.
Ingredients: Longest arrow shafts you can find; 6 inches by 15 inches of burlap; 12 inches of wire; 12 inches of 1/2 inch duct tape; 1 self nock; kerosene; plank for drying
Procedures: 1. Begin by wrapping the burlap around one end of the shaft leaving 1 - 2inches past the arrowhead; 2. Secure the burlap with the wire; 3. Duct tape the burlap to ensure it does not slide up the shaft when shot; 4. Cut the burlap hanging over the end of the arrow parallel to the shaft so it flares when shot; 5. Cut in a self nock; 6. Dip the shaft in kerosene and allow to drip dry momentarily; 7. Allow the burlap to dry for 1 hour (angled down so the kerosene does not run up the shaft); 8. Shoot (for best results allow the flaming burlap to burn for at least 30seconds before shooting.)
Merlin

[Stuart]

Hi Merlin,

Those arrows will suceeed in burning on the shafts, but tend to extinguish when shot. You might get lucky with a low poundage bow i( under 25# ) and remember that the fire arrow is very heavy and must be sky-shot to look any good.
- perhaps you might want to dip the arrow tip in pitch. It holds the heat a little better.

Try experimenting with diesel fuel, with a little lighter fluid.

Be careful. Have water to hand..

Good luck.

[Leuscreuntos]

i love this topic so much, fire fire!! everywhere!!!

[Frosty]

lucky for you i now live in palmy haha

[Massey Archer]

I am very interested in getting one or more fire arrow cages. How much are they? Read Secrets of the English Warbow page 149-51 (Hugh Soar) it talks briefly about incendiary arrows. He theorises that the best explaination for 6 inch long bodkins may be to aid them for use as fire arrows when needed. I can't be bothered to quote the concoctions he suggests but I can do, if you care?

[Frosty]

ahhh
secrets of the english longbow.
Brilliant book
must find a copy for myself.

on EWBS Mark published almost all of his research regarding Fire arrow and to do with making arrows. aswell as penetration and flight tests. absolutely brilliant!

as to the fire cage arrows. i am going to experiment making a few for myself.
how they will turn out i have no idea. will let you know how well they work

[Stuart]

Hello Massey Archer,

If you have time, can you post those old fire-arrow recipies into this list.

I am always interested in the various ways they used to make these.

Cheers.

[Massey Archer]

Robert Hardy's book, Longbow: a military and social history is probably the best book there is on the traditions of the longbow, but it doesn't have anything to say about incendiary arrows. Hugh Soar mentions them albeit briefly in both Secrets of the English Warbow and The Crooked Stick.

Experiments were conducted by him and Mark Stretten when they did their armour penetration tests which inspired Taupo's Warbow Demo.

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We know that Fire arrows were used in real situations but not in open battle. It was used in ship to ship combat and to attack buildings during sieges and it was not always especially sucessful. On campaign it wouldn't always make much sense to create arrows that were strictly for incendiary purposes only. The fire cages mentioned earlier may have been used and they would certainly be effective ( I want one). But of the arrowheads that we know of there seems to be nothing specifically designed for shooting fire arrows exclusively.

A close analysis shows that a fairly short bodkin point is all that is required for effective armour penetration. So why were bodkins of up to 6 inches long forged? Hugh and Mark found themselves theorising that these may have had the dual purpose of penetration and flame. Their experiments showed that a practicle fire arrow can be constructed. It is interesting to note that the very best materials for combustion are all the things that go into making gunpowder. And if you have saltpetre, sulphur and charcoal it might be better to use blackpowder weapons! Many of the old concotions are very complex and dangerous! I am not interested in modern chemicals as this goes against my ethos.

Most people's experiments prove to be disappointing. Pushing a bag of gunpowder over a bodkin and tying it off with a leather thong can work. But coat the bag in Rosin (pine resin) and allow it to cool-off. Problems: a shorter drawlength and a considerably heavier arrow. Pin the arrowhead to the shaft as the glue melts! This can work but there are no guarantees. Try to use a longer arrowhead (goodluck finding one). Use a light wood for the shaft so that the completed arrow weighs less than 125 grams. The bag might be made from a light linen approx 6 inches by 1 inch. Believe it or not, this arrow can travel up to 200 yards when shot by an expert.

Mass saturation of a building or ship is necessary.

A formula that was used in days gone by is the following. But it's all too complex for me...good luck.

8 parts very fine gunpowder, 1 part saltpetre in the crystal form (sodium nitrate found in fertiliser), 1 part saltpetre in loose form (potassium nitrate), 1 part sulfur powdered, 3 parts pine resin (which is insoluble in water and is not capable of sublimation, try Pinetarsol soap), 1 part turpentine, 1 part linseed oil, half part verdigrease ( from weathered copper or bronze) 1/3 part bole armeniac which is impossible to obtain so magnesium will do, 1/3 part sea salt, and a small amount of arsenic.
Mix this together into a concoction, then pour over a molten solution of pitch, linseed oil, tar, sulfur and tallow (animal fat)
When cooled pour into the linen bag and attach to the arrow.
Place two holes into the bag and insert a fuse into each.
Place arrow on bow and get an assistant to light the fuses.
Shoot that arrow to the target but only after checking your insurance policy and sanity.

Of course petroleum, turpentine, meths, alcohol and other chemicals can be used.

In my opinion it is insane to shoot fire arrows and this discussion is very subversive. Fun isn't it?

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[Massey Archer]

Well that appears to have successfully killed that line of discussion...NEXT

[Frosty]

i didnt realise it had died.. i took the information and have been doing some planning