Combat Archery at NAAMA 2007

[Víkarr]

Have to agree its great to see some good conversation on this topic. Adding projectile combat to the re-enactment scene will add a new dimension for people to participate in and enjoy.

We started looking into armour specs for combat archery and exploring various different materials to use but havent done anything for a few months. In addition to perforated plate and woven mesh wire visors, one of the visor materials we experimented with was clear polycarbonate shatterproof perspex. Other than that a basic fencing mask works really well when you dont have anything else to play with and they are great when it comes to training people to get used to taking a combat arrow to the face (we worked it so that you couldnt shoot unless you took your turn as a target).

Having been shot repeatedly wearing different levels of gear I would highly recommend nothing less than a nice comfortable gambeson or thick woolen tunic and would encourage more on top of that where needed (or modern safety stuff underneath it). Just as with pulled strike metal weapon combat, projectile combatants should be able to pull there shots where applicable (i.e close range, a charging opponent, lightly armoured target, etc).

It would be great to establish a minimum requirement list so that anyone who is interested in participating can make suitable gear to be used with others on the same level. Obviously the strictest safety requirements would be regarding face, neck and throat. To add to the previous list I would suggest minimums of:

- Body armour (minimum of a thick woolen tunic or a padded garment).
- Groin protection for males and females.
- Breast protection for females.
- Gloves (recommended padded) and shoes.
- The throat and neck area to be protected by a combination of leather collar or a mail covering with padding underneath (a sponge neck brace obtainable from pharmacies will also suffice).
- All-over skin covering (usually a long-sleeved tunic, long pants). This doesnt really add protection but it means you can wear any type of modern safety gear you want beneath it.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of being able to use projectile javelins as melee weapons with no minimum range and think they should also have a minimum range of 5 metres. The reason behind this being that within pulled strike metal weapon combat the construction of a projectile javelin makes a melee weapon far superior than your average metal weapon used in melee combat - which is a rule that is really open to being exploited. And as there are technically no forbidden target areas in projectile weapons it would also allow for strikes to the face which metal weapon combatants could not reciprocate.

V.

[gt1cm2]

I just want to add to that list elbow & knee protection, this is stuff that can be worn undernear clothing.

[Stuart]

`Evening all,

Before everyone starts wrapping their arrows in all sorts of stuff, try a trick from the "old hands". Brush some raw linseed oil into the arrow shafts. Why ?, well, it makes the arrow "spring" rather than break when stepped on. Also oiled arrows don`t split when they hit a shield.
Don`t oil the flechings..l

Move onto to war machines, for ammo I have only one word - cabbages. ! Effective, safe and ecological !
-ok , so we could do lettice, but turnips are right out.....

Regards,

Stuart.

[Jesster]

Thanx for that Nigel.

with 4 rather full-time papers between now and then and a student budget, i think i might end out sitting this one out with the aim for being ready for future events.

I'll see how it all goes anyway.

Jesster

[Chevalier]

[Chevalier]

[Nathan]

Shoot me shoot me.

I always have fun as a target for Dave et al. at various event though i must agree with Kath in that even blunts hurt well. that one that took me in the knee at Taupo smarted.

from the target point of view i'm for fluflus but will accomidate.

just remember, sheilds hold, my sword's in my hand and you only have so much ammo!

[Angel]

8mm only - 10mm shafts aren't allowed under Lochac combat rules.

The tape isn't to keep the shaft from flexing/breaking, it's to contain the fragments when they do break.

The standard check after every combat, is to flex the arrow by putting pressure on it across you leg and then rolling the arrow down so it is flexed in every direction. If there is any kind of cracking sound, the arrow is snapped in half so that it can no longer be used. The tip is checked for punch-through, the nock is checked to make sure it is still attached, and if there is still at least one fletch still attached, it's good to go.

[NigelT]

The linseed oil trick is a good one... however, personally I'd prefer the SCA taping method. Having now seen the SCA arrows (thanks Angel) I don't think it detracts much from the look of the thing and probably won't alter the flight characteristics enough to matter for combat. Even a very springy arrow will break sometimes - it could be that it clips the corner of something, or gets struck by a moving sword - it could be enough to break it even if it's got more spring in it.


The polycarbonate is a good option - it's modern and would have to be used underneath a helm, but if it works could provide better vision. Have you tested it successfully? I'd be interested to know the details of how you tested it and how you attached it to your helm or head.


I heard a suggestion last night that we could use bamboo for arrow shafts because it won't shatter like other wood and it's light. I guess once you sanded off the ridges it might work. Any thoughts?


Here's another question - what would you be prepared to pay for arrows? I've been doing the maths and trying to figure out how much I could make them for. I could make them and sell them for between $8 and $12, depending on the final cost of materials. Keep in mind that regular target arrows will cost between $12 and $16 to buy ready made. What do you think - will people buy arrows at those prices?


Nigel

[gt1cm2]

Bamboo arrows, sand off the ridges too much and they still break. They would be a great alternative for being much lighter but I'd still want a wrap on them for safety.

[NigelT]

My promising source of arrow shafts just came back to me with a two or three month turn-around

Does anyone know anywhere to buy cheap cedar shafts or cedar/hardwood dowel that would be suitable?

Nigel

[gt1cm2]

have you tried Jan or the archery place in Akl? Can't remember their name but they are in Mt Eden.... Or Nelson archery shop

[Víkarr]

try http://www.archeryimports.co.nz/

[NigelT]

Hi,

Victor and Grayson - thanks for those suggestions. I can get Port Orford Cedar shafts in New Zealand for around $6 each, either from Jan, NZAP, or elsewhere. It seems to be fairly standard.

This morning I cast the net further afield to Australia and beyond. As such I've ordered a bulk lot of shafts from the US. If they are suitable they'll be substantially cheaper than anything I can get here or Australia.

My biggest fear is that if it's expensive for people to get into combat archery they just won't bother and the whole thing will fold up around itself and combat archery will never see the light of day at NAAMA. So if I can make the arrows as cheap as humanly possible, people will be more likely to purchase or make them and use them at events.

I found out the other night too that there is a certain someone in the SCA who is reported to have about one thousand combat arrows at his house... and I was wondering if a dozen was too many to have in my personal stash.

Nigel

[gt1cm2]

sorry have to say this but it would be Cindy, Grayson has his own login as Grayson