El cheapo arrow experiment

[Black Jack]

I've been trying to find a way of making an arrow that is cheap enough so that you don't mind it getting stomped on by some heavily armoured barbarian.( this almost never happens in field archery). For me, even $4 a shaft is too much for an expendable arrow. So, I bought 8mm & 10mm pine dowel and made arrows using 5" feathers & rubber blunts.
Amazingly, they both flew fairly well. The 8mm is really a bit light, being only slightly stiffer than well cooked spaghetti, but it still worked. It takes a bend just by glaring at it, but straightens out OK. I bounced it off bales, cardboard boxes at 5m,( which it penetrated ), and wooden posts, and it didn't break. The 10mm pine was quite heavy ( almost twice the weight of the 8mm ), but flew OK and didn't bend on impact. I would even consider using 10mm pine for a hunting arrow now.
The other thing that came to light, was that the blunts which I had bought in from the States, designed for small game hunting, are meant for a tapered pointed shaft. On a squared off shaft they don't sit right. I guess blunts especially made for reenactment are different. Anyone know about this?
I shall be interested to hear what the arrow breakage rate is from NAAMA. Maybe they'll all survive and my quest will be in vain!

[Inigo]

My experiences with SCA combat archery are that most archers experience far less than 10% breakage and losses over the course of an event. For SCA archery combat, pine is banned for arrows because it breaks too easily.

[NigelT]

[NigelT]

Just a warning to anyone importing things - make sure the declared value of each individual package is less than NZD$400 otherwise customs will quite happily extort GST out of you for the privilege. If you're placing a large order it will be cheaper for you to pay for two sets of packaging than to pay GST... stupid I know, but that's bureaucracy for you. Rant rant rant.....

Nigel

[Angel]

And remember that GST is calculated on value of goods + postage + duty(if applicable). So if your item is worth NZ$380 NZ, and postage is $20, you are going to get pinged for $50 worth of GST.

[griff]

ive been caught out by that one.
i imported some hauberks from india and ended up paying about 400$ extra in gst. but the nice man at TNT did mention as nigelit said keep it under 400? if you can.
i also had to apply to get a special no# for something and the list went on

[NigelT]

What was scarey was that when I phoned the free phone number on the invoice it became very clear that they've got at least one person (if not a call center) who's job it is to take GST off people. It's not even a general payments line, it's just for GST. When they answer there's no hi you've reached Customs, it's just straight into "What's your invoice number please... credit card number and expiry, one moment, ok that's gone through, bye. Click". There was absolutely no room for conversation and it was clear that they were seriously bulk processing phone calls. I'm guessing the amount of revenue that customs is generating from stinging people for GST on imports is staggering.

But as much as I'd like to, this isn't a tax rant.

BlackJack, if you want to order in your own shafts give me a call. Angel has the contacts for the blunts. Feathers can be obtained cheaply from TradeMe if you don't mind cutting your own. For anything else there are several online archery stores in New Zealand, who are (generally) good to deal with.

There has been talk of pine dowel, bamboo, etc - they each has their shortcoming. You could investigate local sources of Lawson's Cypress (Chamaecyparis Lawsoniana) also known as Port Orford Cedar and getting it milled into dowels. I think you'll find this expensive unless you get a *LOT* done in one batch. There are other woods that could be used, but again will be expensive, if not more so than Lawsons Cypress.

If you get really keen you can cut and plane your own arrow shafts from larger timber - this would be a lot cheaper, but very labour intensive. It would haveever give you a much more authentic result.... until you cover it in fibre tape that is.

Nigel

[Black Jack]

Hi NIgel. Thanks for that. I just bought 6 "kids arrows" from my local archery dealer for $3 each, which I guess is pretty good. I'll strip off the vanes & put on flu-flu feathers. They should do the job & be safer than pine. Interestingly, when I did some bend/ break testing on the pine shafts, they bent further before breaking than the cedar, which I thought could be a good thing. But I'll heed the warning & stick to "proper" wood.
I already import all my target arrow components from a traditional archery supplier in the States. Do the "riverhaven" blunts originate there or the UK? I think the "red head" blunts work out at about $NZ2.50 each ( not including freight) from England. and of course they can be re-used pretty well indefinitely. I guess if the break rate is low, as Inigo suggested, my skinflintish antics are not neccessary!
regards,
J

[Stuart]

Interesting to hear about your experiments. The standard black rubber blunts are quite adequate for most re-enactment needs, but are not currently specfied for NAAMA. I bought most of mine from a company called Quicks Archery in the UK. I should mention that I have been shooting the black blunts since 1980 and have had no failures or splits.
For economical fletching, try using a single long feather fletch in a spiral. They are very quick to make. I am currently using Seeleys Kwik Grip glue for fletching. It is easier than Fletchtite and a lot cheaper.

[Black Jack]

Hi Stuart. I think I'll first try using 3x 4" uncut feathers and see how they go. From what I saw at our shoot in Henderson a few weeks ago I think the "bottle brush" fletching may be TOO efficient! The arrows seemed to be falling out of the sky at around 20 yrds. A liitle more range would be good for the overall effect.
Regarding glue: I had always used "official" fletching cement untill the day I fletched 12 target arrows, which looked great untill I shot them and all the feathers fell off!! ( it turned out the glue was not compatible with the lacquer finish I'd started using). I now use Ados. It's quicker and I've never had a problem with it, though it is not quite as tidy as the clear glues.

Regards
J

[NigelT]

BlackJack - you can always spiral fletch with a shorter feather thus reducing your drag and increasing your range slightly. As long as it's still behaving like a flu-flu we're happy. I've made both helical fletched and spiral fletched flu-flus and found the helical fletch (4 feathers) traveled about 30% further than their spiral counterparts for the same feather length.

The HTM black rubber blunts will be fine for NAAMA combat. I've read accounts which suggest that they're not ideal, but then again I've not heard any evidence to suggest they're dangerous either. It probably comes down to personal preference. As long as it's been manufactured as an archery blunt then it's probably fine for NAAMA. I am personally using riverhaven blunts because they've got a large surface area, they're strong, they're cheaper than any others I can get (about $1.70ish), and they're compatible with the SCA rules should I ever want to take my arrows and go play with them. Remember - don't glue your blunts on, just tape them because you want to be able to reuse them if the shaft breaks.

The Riverhaven blunts are made in Riverhaven, Australia as far as I am aware.

Stuart - are you talking about Selleys Kwik Grip (as apposed to 'Seeleys'), available from Mitre 10, Bunnings, etc? What's the drying time on that because I've pawed through everything I could find at both Bunnings and Mitre 10 looking for anything that might work but have been thwarted by the complete lack of information given on the backs of most packets. Apparently 'quick drying' in the glue industry can range anywhere from 5 minutes to 12 hours. I've been using Fletchtite when I can be bothered waiting and have good results with it, but it does take about 15 minutes to cure properly. When I'm in a hurry I use super glue (the more expensive ones tend to work better than the $2 shop ones). Super-glue is a bit hit and miss though - sometimes It'll stick in 10 seconds, sometimes you can be there for ages and it won't stick. There is a new gel super glue out which is similar to fletching gel - slightly easier to use but not great.

Nigel

[Stuart]

Yes, I am using Kwik Grip from Mitre !0. Contact adhesive. Dries in about 10 mins, or 5 mins on a hot day.

[English Warbowman]

I use PVA for my fletching on all my arrows- never had any problems. I also shoot 12mm pine dowels out of my 125lb warbow - never had any problems with those either. Tawa is a great wood for heavy war arrows. It's very similar to Ash in weight spine and density. My Tawa war arrows weigh in around 85g with a 1/2" diameter short bodkin from DIY Archery. I've also just made a 1/4 lber arrow using a 50g hand forged plate cutter head from Sheffield in England.

[NigelT]

[Frosty]

no Nigel unfortunately Keith is not pulling dowel.
i would like to experiment and see what results i get.
there is a place in Auckland that will mill any wood you want into dowels. you give em the plank and away they go.

what Keith is talking about is a 1/4 lb arrow. it is a half inch shaft with a 50g plate cutter head on it
the kind of thing that even if it weren't to pass through your plate armour...you would die from blunt force trauma.