Should we change the NAAMA combat rules regarding strikes?

[Victorius]

This is a digression from the other thread http://www.gatheringdarkness.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2798

Everyone, please play nice (I have to say though, that it's been the ones on my "side"- as it were, Ahem! - who have been the least PC in their reponses).

Simple change for the sake of safety (see my earlier post: " I do not feel the touch-of-death from light strikes is actually very safe, as there can be a tendency for fighters to flick out with little control. We've all seen it happen - more often than not, it's the light flicks that cause cuts and bruises, not the controlled ones from behind the body.")

...And for something slightly more realistic-looking:

So, a change in the rules from:

"All blows must be controlled and a touch is all that is necessary for a hit to be counted..."

to

"All blows must be controlled. Each strike must be landed so that had it been delivered with full power and with a sharp weapon, the strike would have killed or disabled the victim and removed them from the battlefield...One must land a solid and clean hit with the edge of a blade, usually accompanied with a draw of the blade across the opponent’s body."

Please, no comments about those preferring the latter and no liking the former can stop playing, or whatever. Just a simple Yes or No, and then post a comment with a few lines justifying why (further comments can go on the other thread).

[Ben]

No change

The light hits work just fine, and the proposed change leave things way too open to interpretation. I find cuts / small area bruises are more common from flicks / draws where there is a single layer of cloth or bare skin. Larger bruises and welts are almost exclusively from strikes that cover more distance. The frequency of such injuries is far more dependent on the individual combatants more than the style of play

Cheers,
Ben

[Hawkwind™]

No.

Neither of the above descriptions of a hit indicate either what would be a palpable hit, nor lend themselves to any suggestion of control on the combatants part.

Therefore neither of the descriptions of a hit conform to a martial standard nor do they conform to a safety standard.

in my opinion.

[??Questions??]

my vote is no, this wouldnt help with non-hit-takers
wouldn't add safety
would be cool for displays
but displays are, and should be different.

[Stuart]

My vote is YES

And this is why.

The NAAMA combat rules are supposed to be a guide, not an inflexible doctrine.
They should be capable of being revised according to need.

Battle re-enactment is going to change this year. BON, Husjarl, and yomsvikings are all going to challenge us.
It would be wise if NAAMA reg`s became more inclusive of these styles.
-because history shows us that you can`t shut the door on progress.

[Anyad]

No change to NAAMA combat rules.

Because:
Allows the maximum amount of clubs to come together and have a 'multi bash'. A uniquely NZ thing.
Minimum kit requirements match the combat rules.
NAAMA is not a display event, no crowds to impress.

Regards,
Dayna

[Bogue]

Agreeing with Dayna on this one.
I was taught by Dave "Redbeard" Smith, Darryl "Fungus" Thomas , Evan The Viking Nattrass and the other senior members of the Ravens.
What I was taught was control and safety above all else.
What I am seeing now (and yes it is only seeing not participating) is different. But it is nice to know that should I choose I can return to the field at NAAMA and participate in light contact pulled blow combat.
I do note that the major proponents of the change, with the exception of Victorious, have either never been on a Naama field or have not been on the field for a while but always seem to turn up at the event they disparage so vehemently.

Leave Naama combat rules as is and make time and space available to others who wish to fight otherwise but still wish to associate with Naama socially.

cheers
Bogue
Darren Parker-Corney.

[Alan Axe]

YES is the way forward.

The world’s foremost enactor recently visited New Zealand and commented that NZ had the greatest potential to make an impression on reenactment & historical recreation. The Jomsvikings organisation has offered us near unlimited assistance to make that vision a reality. Ideas, training, authentic equipment, and eventually the possibility of international sponsorship. Not just to Vikings, but to medievalists as well.

Offers of that sort don’t come very often. So now would be the time to step up and stop acting like scared children playing tappy-tappy in disparate gangs.

I have watched as outdated and inflexible NAAMA combat rules are slowly splitting your hobby into smaller and smaller factions, a process that can only get worse unless major reforms are undertaken.

This is the chance to fix that. Incorporate Jomsvikings combat into NAAMA rules and begin the journey to stand alongside the best warriors of the world.


Post script.

I have spoken to others and they comment that the influence of Gathering Darkness is declining and it no longer speaks for the majority of reenactors. As far as this site is concerned, I see only a few of the old guard could be bothered to post constructively – and even less to vote.

That cannot be right.

Accordingly, I urge the establishment of a New Zealand National “All Thing” – an annual meeting place for all reenactors where new ideas can be discussed in a more civil, mature and democratic way.

[Norina]

No Change!

Naama rules are great for competition fighting. Easy to tell if you have landed a hit or if you should take one even if you didn't see the strike.
The major injuries I have seen have all been from big blows(even if they were meant to be slow and soft) and not from quick taps

But Jom viking fighting style would be great for displays and public events where dieing is not a sting to the pride and slower fighting is better for the untrained public eye to enjoy.

I do not encourage bon fighting - looks fun but I think the same fun could be achieved by wearing sumo suits and having massive pillow fights!I would do that! Raw physical agression with no concern for fellow man because of safety precautions..

[Robbo]

Wish you'd stop saying that mate. An All Thyng is an inappropriate term. That's a Norse/Saxon thing. What you want is called a "meeting".

Course, I've been talking to people too. Sorry to ask this, and certainly not intending to offend, but who are you? No one seems to know

[thunderbolt]

Yes change of rules.up the armour standards .up the garb standards. up the wepon standards eg a 14th century sword does not go with a viking helmet.basically we all go back to square one if your a fantastic fighter already treat as a refresher this way we will ALL move forward and on the same page.

[Vanessa]

keep mass battles as they are - friendly for everyone, just man up at take the hits
tourneys run at naama could be changed to suit

[Chantelle]

no

For all the reasons already said, as they have been said

[Patch]

Nope is my vote.

1. I don't think we need to encourage harder hits, and it's my opinion that you can see from the comments, even by people who support the idea, that an enforced change like this will most certainly encourage heavy, uncontrolled hits.

2. I don't think we need to encourage ignoring hits. The most common solution to someone pretending they have not been hit is to hit them harder which takes you right back to point one where normal hits leave your bruised, I only want to bleed if it is a real accident.

3. And the most telling point of all; it is completely unnecessary. You can fight in whatever STYLE you want at NAAMA. There are people who fight in a plethora of greatly varied ways at these events, those who fight from the historical manuals, people who fight with large swings, people who fight in ways they have developed themselves, people who have been taught by African mercenaries, people who incorporate Capoeira for goodness sakes.

No-one needs to change the rules to make everyone fight their way, they can just fight their way and if it is better, by golly it will be adapted.
Run classes teaching your philosophy of combat, lots of people will come and digest and incorporate some or all of your stylistic elements. I have not been to a class that I did not take inspiration from.
Cheers,
-Patch

[Bogue]

And after 4 days the score is 9 to 4 against changing the rules and Robbo makes a valid aside.

cheers
Bogue