Missile Combat Rules

[NigelT]

Here it is,

The first draft of the NAAMA Missile Combat Rules. It's a lengthy document (9 pages), but it's hard to boil it down to less without losing things. This document covers armor requirements, weapons requirements, and weapons use for all missile weapons, with a focus on Archery, Javelins and Siege weapons.

I am aware that not everyone is going to want to read the whole thing so I've tried to lay it out in such a way as to make it easy to find relevant information. Alternately it would be possible to produce several smaller targeted documents aimed at archers, siege, etc seperately.

Your feedback is requested - What do you think? Are these rules workable? Do you want to make any changes?

Nigel

NOTE: Document moved to 'Reference' forum. Click here

[Bogue]

Hey Nigel

Looks all good to me.

Be aware that from a Treb like "Urban Disturbance" 500gms will literally KILL YOU if it hits you and the idea of getting hit by that even with a shield is still pretty scary but anything lighter will fail to fly well. That's if I can hit you that is.
But hey I'm firing it not receiving incoming fire.

Cheers
Bogue

[Víkarr]

hey there Nigel, just had a quick browse at the rules you've been working at. Looks good. Just a quick comment.

I would suggest that for light missile combat NAAMA armour specs are probably insufficient and there should be a requirement for a durable shield to be used to cover face and torso. If you dont have a shield then you are really looking at wanting to be wearing gear suitable for heavy missile combat (especially considering there is no restriction on draw weight for volley fire).

Cheers,
V.

[Fungus]

Nigel I have looked at the rules and have no problem
Well done

[Brynnus]

just wondering if you would consider a chainmail coif sufficient protection or say a helm with a chaimmail face covering (assuming sufficient eye protection)

Say if this helm had sufficient face protection

[NigelT]

Bugue - good point on the treb front. Do you have any suggestions on how you may be able to fire something safely into troops in either or both of light and heavy missile combat? The siege stuff was the part I had the least idea about... not owning an engine big enough to do any damage with a tennis ball. The rules in there for siege have been mainly crafted from the Grey Company rules and SCA rules with a bit of creative license thrown in for good measure. If you can give me a set of siege rules concerning projectiles that could work for any and all siege weapons I will gladly incorporate them.

Víkarr - I hear what you're saying about shields. A reasonable point, but so far it's not born out by what I'm hearing from other people. We've left out the maximum draw weight on bows because with a semi-flu-flu type fletching it's near on impossible to fire an arrow much further with a 80lb bow as it is with a 40lb bow - I've tested this. Arrows, if made to specification, will have a maximum range and height if lobbed regardless of the draw weight. To this end, a targetted combatant only has to protect themselves from arrows falling under the force of gravity and can almost ignore any initial power imparted by the bow itself. A standard NAAMA helm will protect quite adequately from this. An off hand raised over the face should be sufficient to protect the face in the absence of a shield.

Don't get light and heavy missile combat confused in this regard. If people are firing at other combatants using a low or flat trajectory in light missile combat they WILL be removed from combat and repremanded as this is a serious hazard... however, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to point a bow upwards instead of level before firing, so provided we adequately brief all combatants before they take the field we should be fine.

If you can provide me with a compelling example of why this might not work I'd love to hear it. Personal experience?


Brynnus - very nice kit. What you have there will be plenty sufficient for light missile combat. To make it legel for heavy missile combat you will need to put rigid perforated plate or mesh across your face (where the chain doesn't cover it) with enough padding or bracing behind it to prevent the mesh touching your face with a hard impact. You should also be padding behind your chain. From the test firing I've done it would appear that chain avontails do almost nothing to stop a blunted arrow if they are not padded.

As far as perforated visors are concerned - Bogue is looking at making them to order if you ask him really really nicely. Visors don't need to be permanently attached, but they should be attached firmly enough to not come off if hit during a fight - duct tape, cable ties, shoe-laces, etc.

Good feedback, keep it coming.

Cheers,
Nigel

[Kath]

Good effort Nigel, really considered easy to read and understand.

Hopefully we will have enough people to have a decent skirmish going on in the fort whilst under fire.......I can't wait !

[Brynnus]

i should point out that is not my kit just something i was looking at online, thying to get the minimum standard for heavy combat as easy as possable as none of our clubs current helms will be up to standard,

what is i could get a hold of some of these? pained silver with mesh on?



they may be usefull for anybody making visors to use as a patern (bogue?)

[Víkarr]

Nigel, I understand what you've got down is pretty much the norm for doing volley fire (I think thats how they do it at Hastings?). I suppose shield use then comes down to personal preference.

[NigelT]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Much appreciated. I wasn't the only one who had a hand in this - thanks go to everyone who proof-read the document and made comment on ideas etc over the past few weeks. Thanks everyone for your input.

Now all we have to do it make it happen for real.


We've tried to only specify requirements and avoid putting in many recommendations. Where we've specified minimum armour requirements, these are what we believe is required to avoid serious injury. Anything which by it's absence would allow no more than bruising has been omitted from the requirements. To this end, although a shield in volley fire is not required to prevent injury, it is certainly a good idea, just as a gambeson is not required in heavy combat, you'd be foolhardy to not wear one.

Cheers,
Nigel

[NigelT]

Brynnus - those masks you were looking at might be ok as a base if they are well padded. They will still require mesh over the top.

The requirement for heavy missile combat is that the entire head is protected from missiles from every angle, including the back and sides of the head. If you wear one of these (presumably well padded) masks under a perforated steel visor, the visor would need to either extend right around the back of your head and be padded all the way, or extent to where your helmet covers your neck if it's got side and back protection built in. Does that make sense?

If you've got an open face helm you need to cover it with mesh and pad it well underneath. How you do that is up to you, we're not going to be too particular on the construction as long as it's not going to allow anything bigger than 5mm diameter through any opening on the helm (other than the bit your neck goes through) and that the mesh cannot be bent onto your head in such a way that would allow the mesh to contact your skin and cause an impact injury (hence the padding or internal structure).

The helmet protection should extend down far enough that a missile would have to be travelling upwards at a 30 degree above horizontal inclination to get to your neck under the bottom rim of your helm. You should have adequate neck protection to prevent a missile with a flatter or downward path touching anything that's not padded or rigid and not flesh.

Chainmail coifs and avontails don't seem to be enough by themselves to stop a blunt force impact injury (based on test firing), so padding should be worn underneath any chain to provide enough protection to qualify for Critical Area Protection.

Does that clarify it any?
Nigel

[Bogue]

Please bear with my musings on this. It could save your life


Done a few calculations on the weight and impact of a treb stone of the weight and size allowable under the proposed rules for missile combat.

Scared a stain out of me I tell ya now.

Not taking into account the fact that the max 500gm weight already has velocity from being put to an altitude of about 30m (rough aproximation of the height of the arc over 80 metres range)
If I dropped that weight on you from 25m (not allowing for resistance due to aerodynamics or lack thereof) it would hit you at a speed of 22.1359m/s (metres per second) this equates to nearly 80kmh.

So far I have looked at bags of rags squeezed into a ball and taped to a reasonably round shape and I'm fairly sure I don't want to be hit by one.

Please remember that the average dacron pillow weighs around 300gms
I still don't want to be hit by one at 80km/h once it's compacted into a 150mm sphere

Your suggestions please.

Cheers

Bogue

[NigelT]

I hear what you're saying.

If you had ultimate freedom to fire whatever you wanted however you wanted, how could you fire something at melee combatants safely and what would that projectile look like?

Ignore what's in the standards proposal for now, it's obviously going to need re-writing.

[pmel018]

WOW
that is a really well thought out set of rules As a suggestion you could add a small washer( metal, plastic, leather etc) to the inside end of your blunts, this will help prevent the shaft punching through the end of the blunt. it would also work for the javelins. Something the same diametre as the shaft and very thin will do the job without adding to the mass of the arrow significantly. I saw this done by the fletchers at Hastings and realised i had done the same thing many times when replacing those rubber "feet" on tubular steel furniture
Good luck with this, it is the most exciting thing to happen in NZ re-enactment for ages
Phil

[NigelT]

Thanks Phil.

In terms of padding the ends of arrows under the blunt - yeah a good idea. One technique I've read is to extend the shaft reinforcing tape right down past the end of the shaft and then fold it over the end of the shaft before putting the blunt over the top and taping it on. This would achieve a similar result and result in a much tighter fit onto the shaft. Washers are a good idea in one form or another.