More on headblow combat...

[Inigo]

I would like to discuss what people would feel is a good minimum standard for helms to be used in head blow combat that includes horizontal chops and face thrusts. Assume that the intended power would be about the same as the current NAAMA combat but that we want to protect against uncontrolled blows as well.

It may also be worth covering things like weapon weights and tip diameters, so we know what we're aiming at protecting against.

Could the nay-sayers please just not bother posting.

[Callum]

Here is a photo of one of two helmets that we had especially made for head blow combat:



It is made from 2mm steel all around and will have a leather adjutable suspension lining as it is intended as a club helmet then for exclusive use by any one person. These people would also provide their own personal padded coifs or arming caps.

If it was for exclusive use I would use a padded liner (25mm) stuffed with horse or cow hair as per the method in Brian Price's book on 14th century armour reproduction.

From my own experiences in taking many accidental full and partial hits to the head in the joust, a 25mm thick liner padded with horsehair provides good protection. As it is unlikely that impacts from vertical, horizontal and thrusts from ground combat would be greater than those received in the joust, I think that a 2mm full head helmet with animal hair padding would be sufficient to provide a safe level of protection for what you have in mind.

[Stuart]

err, what weapon are we using on this ideal helm..?

Steel, ratan, Shini or hard-wood staff weapon ?

[Inigo]

Here is what I'll be using. 2mm mild steel bascinet with 1.6mm mild steel visor. Padded with 15mm closed cell foam lined with linen and held in place with a sturdy chin strap.



I also have a piece of stainless steel mesh that goes between the bascinet and the visor (not fitted). It's held in place like it's in a vice and it has no gaps bigger than 5mm. It;s painted black and is almost invisible.

The mail aventail is butted spring steel and it has a catch at center front that hooks it to the bottom of the visor. This holds it out from the throat and reduces the risk of a rising thrust coming inside the visor.

Under the aventail I wear a 4mm cuirboilli gorget backed with 20mm closed cell foam.

The only thing I wouldn't want to do in this helmet is go swimming.

[Victorius]

Both of those look great!
We're thinking of something like this, a gladiator helmet of the Provocator grade. It would probably require minimum 2mm for the bowl, less for the visor, but 2-3mm for the eye plates.

[Victorius]

Forgot to add: probably want the eye-holes and other gaps closed up, no more than 9mm, possibly 8mm to prevent NAAMA 10mm blade tips.
Not sure what would be required for SCA, would be handy if it could be used for both fighting codes.

[Inigo]

SCA requirements are that there are no holes able to admit a 1" (25.4mm) dowel.

[Callum]

[Inigo]

Callum, this is pretty much exactly the type of helmet I think people should be looking at for head blow combat. It's a very nice piece of work. I think you'd have to be trying pretty hard to hurt someone wearing this. I'd consider fitting a ring to the bottom of the throat plate so it could be buckled down to a breastplate or brigindine, to reduce the chance of a point sliding up into the throat.

From the description, it sounds SCA legal (assuming it has a chin strap) and the other grill you have for mounted club combat would make you fit right in

When I do SCA combat, my head is the best armoured part of my body and I prefer a head strike over any other part of the body, because it hurts less than anywhere else. With a good helm, even a solid face thrust that knocks the head backwards is actually not particularly unpleasent. I'd assume this would be much the same for all these helms with weapons acceptable for NAAMA combat.

Vicktor, you can get some nice gladiator helms from India in boxes of 6. The prices are pretty good and the SCA in Auckland has just ordered a dozen 2mm thick bascinets. They should cost around $120-140 landed in NZ. I'm not sure of the exact cost of the gladiator helmets but if you do get some, specify 2mm steel for the skull part of the helm. I'll take at least one of them



http://www.nautical-mart.com/gladiator-helmet.html

[Callum]

[Inigo]

[stephan]

just so i know what they are can i have a simple list from one of you with what you think are the nassary specfics on a helm for this kind of combat also if the helm needs to cover the neck or can a gorget be worn under coif/avantail so long as no large gaps are visiable

also do you intend people to wear other armour while fighting or like naama will gloves and a suitable helm be all that is required

i think this idea is cool and would certinaly give it a go

[conal]

Derek,

How does making you more safe keep the other guy safe?

Whats the visibility like in these cans?

Got the Greaves and vambraces... thanks.

conal.

[stephan]

i hope thge same thing that keeps people safe on other feilds of battle
training and a understanding of the rules
adding the head as a target makes a combat no more dangerous than normal it just gives one more target
provided that everyone follows the rules and think headblow=smash fest
derek did state that the combat he is talking about is simmilar to naama stuff but just allowing the head has a target as well

i know the question was adressed to derek but im online and want to add my 1cent
regards stephan

[Inigo]