heater sheild tecniques ?

[stephan]

when i particapte in war scernios i use a sheild slighty larger then a heater sheild {i have looked at many pictures from my period and belive that the deminsion are right } and was just wondering if any one has any thoughts on itsa uses outher than put it in the way of the enemys weapon

for a idea of the sheild size there is a picture from the majowicy?{you know the one} bible of a man in a pot helm holding a spear with a sheild straped to his back and people looking at him i think he might be standing on his squire but not sure this is a vague discription but any one who has seen this pisture will know it its quite comon in books

stephan

[Colin]

I think you're referring to Goliath in the Maciejowski Bible.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for. Do you want to know how to use a shield strapped to your back? Probably the best resource for that is looking at the images of the huscarls on the Bayeaux Tapestry. There isn't a single fencing treatise that covers this style of shield use in combat. I've got a few theories on how to use the shield like those depicted by the huscarls, but nothing I could say is definitive proof on the matter.

I've already discussed basic shield use in another thread, at least for flat shields. I also covered a smidgen of this in the shield workshop at NAAMA 2007.

[stephan]

i am asking for any ideas on how to use a sheild

yes it is the goliath[thanks could not rember the name} i was refering to the sheild straped to his back as a guide to the size of sheild i use
i would never use a sheild straped to my back, as this is dumb

will look at the sheilds disscusion



regards stephan

[Inigo]

I made a big curved teardrop shield of the style you're describing that I decided to take out to play with the Norsemen. It's only about 6-7mm thick with a single layer of linen covering the face. It's very light and handles very well, but anything resembling a firm blow on the edge tends to cut pretty deeply into the shield. After about 20 fights it had a wedge chopped out of the top about 20cm deep. Most of the damage was caused by 5-6 firm shots aimed at my head.

- When I used the shield to redirect the blow by presenting a glancing surface, it worked very well with no shield damage.
- When I presented an edge to absorb the force of the blow, the swords bit very deeply and the shield was damaged.
- I'm unaware of what happens when the face of the shield is struck a solid blow by a sword, because my opponents were aiming for me and didn't bother trying that type of shot. But a single hard blow from a hand axe can punch straight through the shield face.

The shield and the power of the blows were both lighter than what I'd expect from a "real" fight, but I suspect the result would be much the same unless the shield was edged with steel.

None of this was a surprise to anyone.

[griff]

Quote Stephan
"i would never use a sheild straped to my back, as this is dumb"

why is this dumb??

[Colin]

To use the shield effectively time and distance must be understood. Once understood then it most be put into practice at a consistent level. Once at a consistent level then deflection is trivial to perform since the mechanics of always deflecting is directly correlated to time and distance.

Until then it is quite hopeless to discuss how to use a shield.

[Joel of Old]

When, a long time ago, we were using heater shields we were taught to keep the top-leading corner angled infront of your face, in order to deflect blows across your body (to the right) or away to the left by 'flicking' your shield - this maneuver would be in conjunction with a strike of course.

This was, believe it or not, in response to 45degree neck/shoulder strikes.


Following on from what I'm learning now, however, with regards to timing and distance I feel that a shield is more of a 'stymie' to position as to limit your opponents attacking options - reducing the angle of incidence that his weapon can effect (affect, effect - whichever).

Why put a shield between you and a blow when you can (assuming you can) not be there and hit them instead.

[Colin]

[stephan]

[conal]

Yeah if I'm not using a 2-handed hutting weapon, I will have a shield on my back for a few reasons.

Fitness. Bit of extra weight.

I forgot to take it off.

Using it for a charge, usually on a well packed shield wall.

I'm about to steal someone elses 2hcw, spear, whatever...

Need to carry it to the next fight.

I need to flush the 45 degree strike to neck-shoulder out of my opponent, politely.

Draw cuts nulified.

Arrow hits reduced.

Climbing seige ladders.

So my own side can recognise me.

I want to look dumb.

[Inigo]

Shields are hard things to put into sport fighting rules and I suspect this is why the few WMA tournaments I hear of around the place tend to not do sword and shield (though they often do sword and buckler).

I heard a story about the SCA in the USA many many years ago. A fighter from out of town turned up to a group and was fighting spear. He had a small shield on each forearm and claimed that this shield made his forearms invunerable. One of the local fighters thought this was rubbish but, as it was a guest, he didn't make a big deal about it. On the following week, he turned up with a small shield attached to each side of his helmet, claiming they protected him from horizontal head shots

I believe that this incident led to the rule that is now in force, that you can only have a single shield and it must be controlled by the hand...

This may be an SCA urban myth. But why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[Colin]

[Inigo]

[Colin]

The primary aim of field warfare was to put as much pressure into a small area as possible. This included both infantry and cavalry. One didn't stand passively around waiting for incoming attacks. As I demonstrated at this year's NAAMA, for your own survival a rugby type scum is imperative.

This type of warfare requires very good coordination otherwise the unit quickly breaks apart and the other side gets to apply that pressure into a small area against you easily. Once an unit is broken up, it gets slaughtered, especially by the cavalry units who are just waiting for that type of opportunity to pounce.

Half trained monkeys get slaughtered pretty easily. The Battle of Wisby is one such record. While much later, the autobiography of Donald McBane is a fascinating read, and of relevance was his first battle. He survived purely because he was a very good jumper and cleared the river, or at least adrenaline gave him the ability (take your pick).

I'd love a chance to demonstrate this level of complexity required, but it requires several hundred willing participants. Trying to get eight willing participants is usually a mission.

[griff]

quote stephan "in the combat we do it annoys me because "

So its not dumb it just annoys you!!

Quote Stephan " it annoys me that if i strap a shield to my back then some how it is invincible but a back plate
is not and some people wear it for this reason "

i can see where your coming from with this one.

In my opinion if it’s on your back or in your hand it’s still a shield. it can also be used very effectively defensively when strapped to your back.
Njal has got a move sussed where he turns his back to his opponents blow and then some how does a little pirouette thingy then bam, it works well but its also in the timing I think.