harness designed for safty

[knight of magdalene]

what elements should be included into paticipants kit to ensure safty?

[Oskar der Drachen]

Rigid protection for:

Joints, to include from the bottom..

Ankles, knees, wrists, elbows, shoulders

Squidgy bits from the bottom to include..

Groin, kidneys, breasts (if you have them), throat (all the way round)

Head & Face (mouthguard at minimum, and no chaffing at participant if a face guard is added to an open face helm if desired).

This stuff does not have to be onerous or heavy, especially if the rules for blows in NAAMA are as I have heard. What you are protecting against is

"OOOOPS!!" Everyone has an Oops now and again, and there's no trying to blame someone afterwards for an honest accident, slippery grass or a tussock happens. You are limiting Oooops damage with equipment minimums, nothing more need be implied.

[knight of magdalene]

what is the current design of such,

ie what modern products are available that can be hidden?

has any one of the like of colin or other such as our armourours designed such that can be put in place and hidden using modern composites etc

what has been developed to this time?

[Colin]

My attempts for making safety gear are aimed at WMA, not re-enactment.

That's not to say I won't sell such safety gear for re-enactors, but it won't be historical. It will be modern, and with WMA in mind. This means they are designed for taking all blows; be it a thrust to the throat or face, or horizontal attacks to the head.

My intention is for them to be mass produced. I may as a service be willing to weld a fencing visor (mesh) onto re-enactor helmets, but I'm unsure on whether that is a general desirability in this community. I could look at solid joint protection, but the padded garment I've got in mind should provide excellent protection.

[knight of magdalene]

would it not be possible for the safty technology to be designed in such a way as to be able to be hidden? or in a way that is acceptable?

This proposal is based around the concept that NAAMA is not in fact

[knight of magdalene]

What reluctance are you finding?

[knight of magdalene]

what reluctance is there for this equipment?

[Angel]

Cost. Money doesn't grow on trees. Neither does armour.

[knight of magdalene]

Is cost the only reason?

If so then the solution will be easily implimented.

We dont know what that cost might be as yet...

why not look at the designs and go from there?

can every one please post their thoughts on what would be required to protect the key areas. or expand on this list.

top of head ( crushing impact)

face ( glancing and thrusting blows) with full protection provided to eyes, nose mouth ear channels temple

Neck ( windpipe, neck spine)

Sholders ( collar bone )

Chest

Inner arm ( artery protection)

Outer arm ( crushing)

Elbows, (crushing, Twisting limitation)

hands ( crushing)

Groin ( peircing, crushing)

Full length of spine - including tailbone ( crushing)

rear of legs ( artery protection)

front of legs ( crushing)

Knees ( crushing, twisting, sideways collapsing limitation)

Feet ( crushing )

[Angel]

Okay, not in any way suggesting this as minimums for NAAMA, but offering reasonalble solutions for protecting various bits. Many of these solutions aren't authentic for some the periods that people choose to recreate.

Head - A steel helmet constructed out of 2mm steel for structural integrity and to provide mass. The heavier your helmet is, the less impact gets transferred to your head. The helmet needs to be sufficiently padded - a beany just doesn't provide enough padding. Hemlet could extend to cover ears, cheeks etc.

Face - A face plate. This could possibly be disguised with a mail drape etc to be more appropriate.

Neck - SCA legal leather gorget does the trick for me, protects wind pipe and the cervical vertebrae. I also have a camaille attached to my helmet.

Shoulders - sufficient padding (gambeson) and/or spaulders or whatever term is appropriate.

Chest - at least some padding. I'd recommend something more substantial (ie barbie boobs or a breastplate) for women, because getting stabbed in the tit REALLY frickin' hurts.

Inner arm - puncture resistant clothing - a few of layers of drill fabric or a gambeson will do the trick.

Outer arm - again, a padded gambeson, rigid upper arm protection if you are feeling keen.

Elbows - rigid protection with padding - even skateboard pads under your tunic would be better than nothing. Not sure what to do about torsional injuries, other than training to avoid them.

hands and wrists - rigid protection with padding - could be steel, could be leather - if it's bendy and bony, protect it!

Groin - martial arts groin protection all the way. To protect the arteries again wear puncture resistant fabric - pants!

Spine - protect the sticky-outy ones up by the neck with extra, but just cover the rest with at least a padded gambeson.

Rear of legs - puncture resistant pants

Front of legs - padding for thighs, rigid knee protection, and rigid protection for bony shins. Not sure what to do to prevent torsional injuries - having good knee armour which extends above and below the knee to reinforce may help.

Feet and ankles - decent boots, sabotons if appropriate.

[knight of magdalene]

Why wouldnt there ba a minimum NAAMA safty standard for inter style participation? I am lost here as to what the opposition to that might be.. other than cost and thats easily sorted if the participant can make their own addapting modern product following patterns freely provided.

For example the helm needs to be suspended from the skull via suspension, this can be acheived for example by inserting a modern safty helmet inside the outer , the chin strap should be as per modern military helms ie the chin protrudes through the strap and other such adaptions.

The spine and sholders can be protected with adapted motorcross kit...followed by gambison followed by whatever else...

what designs are out there for all this?

[knight of magdalene]

[Angel]

It would probably be possible to fashion a close approximation of a WWII tank from materials and techniques available in the medieval period. That'll keep me safe on the field. Protects all those important bits. Doesn't mean I want to use it, though.

If it were all about safety we'd be using Nerf products.

[Angel]

[knight of magdalene]

Dunno ...what do you think the vairous factions would find minimally acceptable?