Proposition for a grade system in NAAMA combat.

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Hey neighbour, just want to say I enthusiastically applaud what you are trying to do here and am sincerely enjoying the enthusiasm and energy and positivity you are putting into the project.
Don’t be disheartened if the vast majority of people/clubs don’t pull in behind the project straight away either, just bring events on board with what you are trying to do and let the fanbase grow, if the style is sound then you will get respect and support but I suspect that it has to come from the silent majority grassed roots to effect change.
I am sure that the things I am noting have already been talked about so apologies if there is repetition of other peoples observations.

Rule 2 On the field of battle when the marshal or when a combatant calls “Break” everyone should take up the call to stop the combat (this is the common practice and a damn good tradition I think). Helmets being hit often hear very little.

Be aware that people use “halt” to order formations to stop advancing, also “stop”, I really recommend “break” because it has no other battlefield use, I have watched a couple of times when people have called “halt, halt, halt, hold the line” etc and their enemies stopped fighting them out of respect and then get butchered for their courtesy, actually that happened last Clontarf to one of the teams I think.

Rule 2.1 and a bunch of other rules are for duels only, you wont have the marshal acknowledging every blow when 50 people are fighting at once. You might want to drop the words “in single combat” at the front?

Rule 2.2 “Following a confirmed hit both combatants will then reset and begin another round of combat”
um... unless the fight is over, surely,
or it is a mass melee,
or it is a game that has different rules than that like you swap sides at that point or … etc

Having great fun exploring the style. I would like to try it out soon.
-Patch

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Now I think that this is really going to be a biggie;
The system is currently permitting blows, including thrusts to the groin and spine… you are going to run into people not wanting to wear that much armour for every fight I think. You might have to get an armour check into the rules too because I know I will be very unhappy if I cripple someone who was not wearing their box.

In fact I think that mandatory armour is going to be a big issue for you anyway. Lots of people do not want to wear lots of armour when they fight. Armour is often simply a hot, smelly, uncomfortable, sweaty, expensive, unhistorical burden to a fighter. Especially when they could play NAAMA and need only a stout pair of gloves and a lid (and maybe a fig leaf for moral support and sunblock so they can fight tomorrow too.)

-Patch

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Rule 2.3
You have not said what a head blow is, are horizontal shots to the ear ok? That is the STANDARD flat snap strike of the biggest sword-fighting club in the world. It is not unreasonable for someone to flat out not know and snap a shot out that slides with deadly grace under the brim of a standard style helm, or that lovely wrap shot that lands with occipital crushing force on the back of the skull. Not an unlikely or unreasonable situation if it is not said in the rules.

“Head blows should be allowed if both combatants agree”
But you cant do this on a general field of battle obviously…
Perhaps if something like this was added “or the marshal defines head blow as the rules of the field for this battle”, (maybe these rules are not for massed combat, if so I apologise).

-Patchini.

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Oh by the way rule 2.5 is the end of the sentence started in 2.4.

What does a wounding blow mean? Limb loss?

You imply that armour will save you if it is on your limb and not on the elbow is this true? If so you need to say it explicitly not implicitly. I am not sure what the intent is here, could we have some more clarification?
“Wrists, elbows, ankles, knees and armpits. This includes any other area on the combatant that is not covered by armour.”

How can you tell when your elbow and not your arm just nearby was hit? Every fighter who wants to win will assume quite honestly that the blow was on the arm and not the elbow, and every warrior worth his salt will know without a shadow of a doubt that he hit the elbow fair and square and tempers under these conditions often fray.

-Supporting this project with my sword arm and my heart
-Patch

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Just out of curiosity how does this work? Beheading is almost impossible if you may not strike the throat. You have banned throat strikes then listed it as a killing blow.
“No stabs or slashing attacks to the face or throat.”
“A killing blow is that which in a real battlefield situation would be in actual fact a death blow. These are beheading, stabs and/or slashes to the torso.”

Interestingly, if you are interested in introducing realism into your combat then a good helmet should at least turn a killing head blow into a wounding blow if not nullify it altogether. There is nothing like a good hunk of steel suspended over your skull to stop a sword from hurting you.

Most of the time we talk about stabbing, slashing, chopping and crushing damage in my club but these rules only talk about stabs and slashes, is there a reason for this? Saxes and halberds chop like a cleaver, maces and hammers crush (plus even when talking about swords you get a significant amount of chopping blows and crushing attacks).

Eager to hear more.
-Patch.

[Patch]

Hey it's me again
I would like to ask about rule 2.7
“You cannot lightly tap an opponent and call it a killing blow. All hits must make solid contact, but must be controlled. If a wound, e.g. a bruise, is received the wounded combatant is the only one who can decide to continue the combat, or yield to their opponent.”

You are clearly talking about a much stronger hit strength than standard inter club fighting. I will just mention that this is going to remove a significant number of people from wanting to play. In fact you have said outright that when one fighter wounds another it is a win condition if I understand what “yield” means. Lots of armour, lots of wild shots glancing off targets you never aimed for. I would not want to wear anything less than mail over everything, all joints and throat playing this game. Can you at least give a definition of what you mean by solid contact?
Remember that if you are thinking about the hit strength and style at Taupo, that there is an ambulance standing by at all times that combat occurs at that event, and it was well used last year with several people being badly injured. This is going to cost if you want to do it at a private event.

-Patch - I have heavy armour -

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

You mention in rule 4 “All combatants must wear adequate armour, for their own safety (this goes without saying).”

Yep for sure. Although I think it really, really does need saying. In fact I think you probably need to give a little more on what you think should be adequate.
I would guess as a minimum,
Gambison and padding over all the body, esp the joints
Helm and gorget
Armoured gloves
Boots
Box to keep family jewels and other valuable keepsakes.

And that would be the least. Open face helm is going to be scary.
Would that be a fair guess?

-Patch

[Patch]

Oh crap I actually glazed over your minimum armour rules LOL! My extreme apologies for the last post please largely erase it from your mind.
I would be interested in the test phase though how someone wearing the minimum feels about wearing only a vest of chain, a rigid but not steel helmet and some leather gardening gloves and nothing else through some good competition fighting.
-Just a thought.
-Patch.
Again sorry I got enthused and missed the blindingly obvious.
<<headesk>>

[Patch]

Notes and thoughts on the Duxfield system:

Rule 9 might need a glance.
“Armour must be of a thickness strong enough to absorb pulled blows and stabs. Recommended thickness of 3mm or more.”
3mm thick plate steel is… keen

The tournament points idea is great, makes the warrior fight for every point. Be cautioned that one fighter is not given only easy opponents or they will score astronomically highly for very little effort and go into the final fresh and chipper, unstressed or weary and with a massive points advantage.
But on the whole, awesome ideas keep them coming. Cant wait to see where this goes.
-The fast trader Patchini.

[PopTart]

Uuum, wasn't this topic supposed to be about a grading system for interclub combat?

Appreciate the need to work out a rule set, but the thread seems to be getting bogged down in over-analysis of a hypothetical set of rules.

Just me own opinion...

Willz

[Robbo]

I've happily competed in tourney and general combat alike with no more armour than a pair of gloves and my helm.

Having said that, there have been times I've heartily wished I was wearing more, and at least once I was grateful to be wearing chain (lifted several meters thru the air opposite the direction I had been running in).

All depends on the combatants, their skills and your trust.

[Carl]

Patch.....Nine posts in 45 mins, Dude Go To Sleep

And sorry Robbo don't the NZ Norse have thier own ruleset that they use.

[Robbo]

Ummmm...I make em up as we go dude.

Ours pretty much boil down to:

1. Be honourable
2. Take your hits
3. Only well formed, controlled, strikes count (no tippy tappy)
4. Don't be a d <family friendly>
5. Avoid joints, spine, groin, face (head strikes are ONLY straight down)
6. What the Marshal says, goes
7. Risk anything else at your own peril

Basically, if you want to out there with no gloves, helmet or armour, we'd suggest you don't (and someone's gonna kick your family friendly if you try tbh). You don't take hits, we're gonna call you names. Hit too hard, we'll line you up and take turns showing why it's a bad idea.

Family friendly me off when I'm marshall and I'll bend you over, and spank your family friendly for you with a large wooden spoon. If we think you're being a tool, we'll pull you off the field.

It's not common sense, it's OUR sense of what works.

We don't have armour rules...but if you come out with something dumb, we'll tell you. We frequently point to other event rules as guidelines for your own gear. Hey, we all like to travel, but why make 3-4 sets of gear when one set can encompass a few?

[Grayson]

Well said Robbo good to see you kept it family freindly

[Grayson]