Proposition for a grade system in NAAMA combat.

[Carl]

good family friendly Robbo, I wasn't sure if you family freindly down there in sheep family friendly land used rules, that is a family friendly good family friendly way of dealing with family friendly family friendly who family friendly it up for the rest of us just trying to have some family friendly fun.

family freindly it

[stephan]

prehaps .....
blimey that guys a good fighter

and all agree
then every one knows he knows his stuff

naama is a rules set of safety
1 if you go on to the feild with te idea of giving good pulled blows then this is naama
2 if you go onto te feild with tippy tap thenthis is also naama

3if you go onto the feild with a spoon made of wood and hide in a bush till baddies run by then you trip them and they have a unfortnate meeting with said spoon this is also naama

mo matter what your traing or style ...if you pulll your blow ,dont target restristed areas the rest is fluff your doing naama fighting ..
deal with it

stephan

[Robbo]

Ummmm...no.

BC, being a dark ages camp (specifcally Norse or Pirate Captain), don't allow the epee or estoc (by way of example only) onto the field. Time periods and what not. Therefore a very prettily performed wrist utilising point hit would be unacceptable for us.

99% of people simple cannot attain the degree of speed, accuracy, timing and power to effectively use these techniques with a broadsword, and still achieve a wounding strike.

Perfectly acceptable in Naama combat however.

[conal]

Yeah...nah,

Judging by the helmet dings from Harcourt... speed, accuracy, timing and power regulation with broadswords seems to be a declining art.

(Although this is a display environment wherein foot combatants are cast as little more than rodeo clowns.)

Display Combat may be one place where additional armour is warranted in both a preventative and esthetic capacity.

Happy for a minimum armour spec of gloves with lid to exist.

I don't see a need for more than a long sleaved t-shirt (to prevent sunburn) on the upper body in Headblow combat.

However... I'd also like to see...

Mouth-guards.

They are reccommended (with conal enforcement) in the Ravens for inter club with the headbangers. The more ardent proponents in this expression of our sport seem slow to adopt them inspite of the wealth of evidence of there efficacy in the reduction of concussion injuries.

On the progress front... It's nice to see that the suspension liner suggestion was picked up on.

[Robbo]

There's a difference between a rule and an advisement or suggestion.

I don't wear much n the way of armour, haven't been able to afford it till relatively recently, but I strongly advise others to wear it if they can.

Especially in headblow.

Can't speak for Harcourt, never been. Can't speak for fighters I've never fought or don't know. More than happy to stand there in no armour, no lid, and let a few people I know do their best.

Evan once gutted me a beauty with his axe, perfect swing, lots of power, gentlest tap you could ask for and left no room for doubt that he'd nailed me. You've done similar to me in the past. Couple of others, likewise.

Then there are people I know who I don't care if I was in full harness, I STILL wouldn't let them swing a weapon near me.

Where were we going with all of this again?

[Daniel Duxfield]

Wow! What can I say? You guys have given me heaps to consider.

So to answer a few comments . . . . .

1. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here just looking at writing a universal set of rules.

2. Re rule 2.1; I was thinking of single combat when I was writing these.

3. Personally I haven't fought in armour besides gloves and we were fighting with bokkens/ryus made of wood. When we hit each other we felt it (trust me, my last fight left me with a black eye and a nice lump on the head for being cheeky with a new technique I'd just learned from a good mate. Lesson learned Simon, won't do that again. However he had a very nice bruise on the hip the next day).

4. Re Rachnwill; Yes, I suppose I got side tracked from the grading system thread to a re-write of the rules. you ike the grading system for single combat?

5. Robbo; I'd rather not wear a lot of armour when fighting, so I understand that side of the argument. I'd be happy with the armour set from 300, anything else is too much for me. I like to move fast and often. I naturally assume that my opponent fights with honour and respect as I do, but wil fight their hardest to win, as I will.

6. Re 2.3 concerning head shots? Well, I'd have to admit that most of my instruction with the bokken/ryu was to go for the head, so as to win the fight quickly. I'd like to keep those moves up my sleeve. So I would go for a horizontal and vertical hits to the head. I should have been more clear here, suggestions?

7. I suppose what I should have said for rule 2.5 was that for those of us who are trained to go for the gaps in the armour . . . . ah family friendly it! I'll leave 2.5 out. Go back to my re-posting of the re-write.

8. Good point Patch, on the ; “No stabs or slashing attacks to the face or throat.” . I think I may have contradicted myself there. My short sword is a slashing and stabbing weapon, as is my bokken/ryu.

9. Re; “You cannot lightly tap an opponent and call it a killing blow. All hits must make solid contact." I was thinking that there should be a firm contact between weapon and target. So what I meant to say was that I get family friendled off at a light 'tap' being called a 'hit'. If your going to hit me then family friendly well hit and don't be a pussy about it! But I don't expect you to try and run me though with the business end of your sword. I guess.

10. Patch, good point on the armour thing. But for those that are interested, a mate of mine who is into mountain climbing showed me the kevlar he sews onto his pants to stop his cramp-ons from accidentally sticking him in the leg. Better than chain-maille and waaaay less expensive, he reckons it will stop the point of my sword going through it, totally stab proof, can't buy it in dark-blue though . . . .

11. Thanks for all your input.

[Robbo]

Point 5.

Oh I agree mate. You're even in the majority of people who DO fight with honour. The pity is that it's not everyone. Oh, btw, I rarely wear armour more than gloves/lid. I may not be the most useful person on a battlefield, but I still try.

Point 6.

Head shots should be a "crowning glory" style of shot. Straight down. Way too easy to damage the neck with sudden sideways movements (you should ask to see my teeth some day too), can also cause concussions much easier, etc, etc ad nauseum.

Safety first.

Point 9.

For the ladies? For those who need to be assured they can go their job without black eyes, covered in bruises, etc? Eg/ Hospitality workers, childcare, Hospital staff

I prefer to be hit, to know I've been hit. But I'm also ok with people fighting to the touch (well formed blows only please).

Point 10.

Want me to run some tests with you on kevlar? Aside from the non authenticity issue, it's not really that great. Sure it can stop bullets, but it won't save your arm if someone swings to hard...

I like your ideas though dude. If you ever get the chance to come up to Levin, come play with us one day. Plenty of space to crash, we'll even feed you. Then we'll beat 7 shades of family friendly out of you!

[Patch]

Hey I would love to have the Dragons style of combat explained to me while we are looking at the popular forms. How does it work exactly?
-Patch.

[Patch]

The current NAAMA fighting rules in brief can be easily downloaded from here -

http://olhh4a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pHFQeFeEkqbdcuGqVbXAGB_uVxr2iORCaFjC3e-sRT9AaLMtKYo0V8Ki27j0JpogCDdL7D-TJCil7AWNNSGkQxQ/NAAMA%20equipment.doc?download

This is everything you need to know before the event for your equipment standards.

and from here

http://olhh4a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pHFQeFeEkqbcLcXSSpLOU9NfFulrhmR4BEmt-h9RlXjmFTh9LkD_Hoyufcw0SPhFMZN3dK9CLLOQC5QB93HvelA/Naama%20rules%20for%20fighters.doc?download

This is a one page document that not only tells you the NAAMA rule set but also recommendations and explanations for NAAMA combat. This is everything you should need to take to the field and have a great time.

NAAMA fighting includes headblow combat and a simple battlefield armour system to give you a reason and advantage to tank up if you want to.

These rules-in-brief documents have been ratified and approved by the NAAMA captains in formal session
(not that we are ever terribly formal ).

Cheers,
-Patch

[BigMac]

THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
These have been in part adapted from the NAAMA rules set, with the more pedantic rules being removed.

1 Fairplay, honour and respect will be the watch words for any combat.

2 The Marshal has the ultimate control over the combat. All calls to 'Halt', 'Stop', and/or 'Break', must be obeyed by both combatants. One of my pet peeves is having a charge/battle stopped destroying hard won momentum because someone yelled "halt" as a battle field command and people thought s/he meant "break". Break doesn't sound like any other command and can not be confused

2.1 The Marshal should also acknowledge when a blow is received.
2.2 All blows must be acknowledged by the combatant receiving them. Following a confirmed 'hit' both combatants will then 'reset' and begin another round of combat.
2.3 Head blows should only be allowed if both combatants agree. Blows must be controlled and should not be aimed at the face or throat. No stabs or slashing attacks to the face or throat.
2.4 Hits to the the following areas will not count as 'kills' but can be counted as a 'wounding blow'. Do these count for half? or are they just ignored?
2.5 Wrists, elbows, ankles, knees and armpits. This includes any other area on the combatant that is not covered by armour.
2.6 A 'killing blow' is that which in a 'real battlefield' situation would be in actual fact a 'death blow'. These are beheading, stabs and/or slashes to the torso. Or any other 'hit' that would in all reality cause the combatant to no longer be able to fight. If my opponant beheads me do not expect me to call the blow, and doesn't this violate 2.3?

2.7 You cannot lightly tap an opponent and call it a 'killing blow'. All hits must make solid contact, but must be controlled. If a wound, e.g. a bruise, is received the wounded combatant is the only one who can decide to continue the combat, or yield to their opponent.
2.8 The Marshal has the final say on whether a combatant is 'dead' after receiving a 'killing' blow, if the combatants can not agree. Even if its a beheading?
Their word is law and will be respected. If you have an issue with a Marshals' decision, then discuss it with them after the combat is over.

3 A combatant, for any reason may discontinue the fight. They do not have to give a reason. Their decision will be respected by their opponent and supported by the Marshal.

4 All combatants must wear adequate armour, for their own safety (this goes without saying).
4.1 Everyone in combat must wear a rigid helmet, with chinstrap, and at least leather gloves. Torso protection, I.e; chainmaille, plate armour, or it's equivalent. I have been fighting for 15 years and still don't own a gambason/jack let alone chain. this is prohibative for young students just getting into the scene

4.2 It is the responsibility of the combatants to ensure that their armour is adequate and will provide propper protection.
4.3 Mouth guards, boxes and breast protection are optional and their use should be encouraged.

5 Checklist for Combatants;
Helmet, gloves and armour.
Remove (or blunt) all sharps, points and blades, that may accidentally catch on you or your opponent.
Weapons should be clean and serviable, i.e; rust free.
There should be nothing that will impede your ability to fight, i.e; loose clothing, wounds or blocked vision.

6 If you are bleeding you must leave the field immediately and seek first aid.

RULES FOR WEAPONS AND ARMOUR
7 Flails, entangling, jointed, thrown and missile weapons are not allowed in combat.

8 All swords, knives and spears must have a 10mm (or larger) rounded point on them and the blade edge must have a 1mm (or larger) blunt edge to it.
8.1 A spear or pole weapon shaft must be 25mm or thicker.
8.2 weapon rules also apply to shields and armour, do not have protruding spikes, spines or blades.
8.3 Corners must be rounded to 10mm or greater, exposed edges must be 1mm or thicker.

9 Armour must be of a thickness strong enough to absorb 'pulled' blows and stabs. Recommended thickness of 3mm or more.

10 A shield may be used as an offensive weapon, but the edge can not be used to attack the face. (See rule 2.3 on head blows.)


POINTS AND GRADING
11 A points system could be used (like in boxing) to score the combatants, with the Marshal keeping score.

12 The points system could work thus;
A glancing blow (that does not 'kill', i.e. a 'wounding blow') scores 2 points for the attacker,
Deflecting a blow scores 1 point for the defender (with 2 bonus points being awarded for a successful parry),
A killing blow scores 5 points for the attacker,
The victor is awarded 10 bonus points.

13 Competition Points
This could work in conjunction with the points system, with fighters accruing points and adding their scores from their matches throughout the tournament.
A competition can therefore begin with many fighters and would then eventually be cut down to the final two 'finalists'. Based on their scores.

14 Grading
Fighters must be able to show that they are proficient with their chosen weapon set, understand the weapons they use and be able to have control over them.

A set of basic drills may need to introduced to set a 'baseline' for skills. The points system could be used in co-operation with a record of their victories and loses being taken into account, to produce a skill level.

[/quote]

[Anyad]

The Dragons system of combat:

9 areas of target:
Crown (head)
Upper arms
Sides of torso
Upper legs
Lower legs

One thrust - to the belly which is to be done with a 'soft' elbow to allow for pulling and a side step to allow to a pass to occur.

No joint shots (elbows/knees)
No back shots

We are 1250 - 1450 so 'generally' we are quite heavily armoured and our strike zones reflect this.

[griff]

quote "So I would go for a horizontal and vertical hits to the head"

vertical yes horizontal no, bad bad bad

[Victorius]

[stephan]

points for hits can be a good style
provided that the fight resets betwen hits

a style ive been useing for tourneys is

between two fighters three points can be gained

limbs are 1 point
head {crown} inner thigh and torso gain all remaing points as this is a kill and we dnt fight again
limb loss for forarms and lower leg {must kneel }

eg ive hit you in the arm i gain one point fight resents
then you hit me in the head you gain two point and the fight is over

or... in the first fight you hit me in the chest and gain three points and the fight is over

or ..i hit your lower leg you drop to the ground and we continue fighting then you hit me in the arm and gain 1 point we reset and fight again {limb loss gos away} then i hit you arm and agin one point fight resets and then you hit me in head for the last remaining point
you win with two points

etc etc

ive tryed it lots and it is effective and quick

[Daniel Duxfield]

Sounds good to me. counting the hits going on in a single combat has always worked in the past for me.

If the marshal doesn't mind having something else to do while watching the fight. That wouldn't be too hard?

And I like the scoring system.