Banning swords

[stephan]

ban swords what a joke

imagine seeing the battle of hastings with carnival style bolw ups

sorry a bit irrevelent , but it had to be said

[Colin]

[Stuart]

I must agree with Colin. In my experience, any crime becomes an instant excuse for a politician, or newspaper, to demand " tough" action against any inanimate object. Re-enactors ( or for that matter gun owners ) will always get their freedoms curtailed "in the public interest"..
In England I saw whole battle groups outlawed overnight by stupid leglislation. The situation there has got so bad, that the British police have taken to threatening theater groups who`s only crime is to own a few blunt stage swords. Common-sense has all but vanished.

In cultural terms, whatever happens in the UK, tends to be picked up in NZ after a few months. Hence, we should pay attention to the status of UK weapon law, and prepare our defences in NZ.
Whatever you do, don`t let the PC & HOS madness into re-enactment.
It`s like a cancer. Once it takes hold you will never get rid of it. Challenge every petty official, write and complain and remind law-makers that re-enactors have a legitimate right to their hobby.

[Victorius]

Has anyone found out what the Maori groups do? Their Taiaha and some of the others, like Mere, could cause some damage if some loony got hold of one and decided to do some damage (and let's not have any nonsense that Maori will somehow be exempt for some spurious PC reason).
We need to get on the same lobby group they'll use if someone in Authority dares to try banning any of their equipment. If anyone tries with European weapons first, try getting them onside, letting them know they could be next.
Could have a far bigger organisation then...
Just a thought.
I'd hate to be relegated to wooden wasters. They don't deflect in the same way that steel weapons do for a start. Also, they don't look anywhere near as cool (I always wonder if all NZ re-enactors would have become SCA if they had used metal weapons instead, but that would be getting waaay off topic).

[Nathan]

[BigMac]

Why MSSA's as oposed to .22's. Because most .22's will not penetrate a vest or patrol car or even a body.

But then again check out this http://www.montysminiguns.com/brian.htm

Possums and rabbits beware

TTFN

[pmel018]

[/quote]

Personally I have no problems with restrictions on certain styles of blades under 250mm, as these are concealable, but try to hide a 12 inch dagger is a pain in the ar$e.

In the end however, legislation only restricts those that obey the law.

Nathan[/u][/quote]

I have to say that this attitude is exactly how legislators divide and conquor. Some knives(or guns or cars or books)SHOULD be restricted for the sake of public safety, but not your knives. Then after the next drug fuelled outrage...Oh dear we have to ban this type of knife for Public Safety and on it goes. It worked here in the UK when the various shooting groups were kept so busy defending their own activities that they did not see the bigger picture which was the removal of privately owned guns in this country. They were so busy squabbling amongst themselves that the handgun ban came in almost unnoticed until the last moment by which time it was far too late.
So if you like medieval daggers then you have to consider why you think it is OK to restrict other blades when in fact double edged blades are a prohibited import in NZ. Is concealability a criteria, ease of opening, colour, blade shape etc. Sorry mate lovers of edged weapons can't afford to be too selective, once the banners get started nothing is safe.
Phil

[Oskar der Drachen]

I've heard these arguments before. I wish I could find the picture I saw about a Martial Artist, annoyed at the fact that "ninja" stars were being picked on for their ability to be thrown to stick into a watermelon.

He threw about three dozen different things into a watermelon, anything from credit cards to kitchen tools, pencils and pens, keys, drink coasters, a small hard-cover book, and I think he even got a sharpened carrot stick to puncture the melon.

There is no logic to these things, just hysteria. This is infectious and dangerous though, just ask any Witch.

[Oskar der Drachen]

Should have added this to the last mail, the point he was making is that in the vast majority of cases, it is the PERSON who is dangerous, not the object or objects in question.

[AndyMc]

I have heard the rumours about making it difficult, or even impossible, for us to own or use swords. Legislation in Vic, Aust to have all edged weapons over 40 cm (I think) in length subject to the same rules as pistols was seriously considered. This would mean that you would need a license to own the sword (blunt or sharp), it would have to be kept in a safe when not in use, need specific permission for public at a place not designated a "sword range", taken to and from its safe and place of use in a locked box and so on.

And this sort of thing can sneak up on us. Perhaps we should have a word with Pistol NZ and COLFO to see how they manage to keep the politicians at bay. Although our sport is not as political as pistol shooting, many of the same arguments against it can be levelled at us.

However, as far as I am concerned, if a Kapa Haka group can keep their Tiaha for cultural reasons, I can keep my swords and bows for the same reason. It is my culture, my history, my soul and my right!

It is also the best argument we have.

[ChronicD]

I have been following this with some interest, i agree that for cultural reasons we should be allowed to possess swords and bows etc. But i had also thought that steel fighting was classified as a martial art??? Please correct me if i am wrong. If we were a martial art then i see no problem as there are well established clubs that operate commercially (ie they make money from it - we by and large dont, well at least for now snigger), training children and adults alike. I mean i know of a place in the hutt that does cage fighting!!! In any case it is a commercial precedent that must have had some legal hickups with osh. if we (steel fighting) are already classified in the same category as chinese martial arts then there is no prob - if we are not we could think about creating a national body that everyone has to join to do any steel fighting and have that body register itself with the appropriate govermental group.

anyway - just a thought
Dan

(edited marshal for martial - dam spelling)

[Nathan]

[Colin]

I've split this off from knife crime seeing as it has become specific. I'm also spending way too much time here

Please bear in mind not to jump the gun. There is currently (15 March 2009) no attempt to restrict swords. Therefore getting paranoid about some phantom legislation is counter-productive.

One of the criteria that would be needed for any such anti-sword movement to get started is a spate of high profile crimes being committed using swords or sword-like objects (e.g. machetes). Until such time we're relatively safe.

However if you want to avoid such an adverse future there are some things you can do. I'm generalising, but you need to get a lot more serious about your hobby. Your presentation to the public needs to improve. For example I have had feedback from the Taupo 2009 event about re-enactors being a bunch of drunken louts. Maybe it isn't true at all, maybe only a handful got drunk during the day, maybe it was only a few pretending to be drunk or perhaps a number did get sloshed. Whatever the case maybe, you've now presented an image to the paying public: re-enactors are drunken louts. If the media decided to go against re-enactors for whatever reason (e.g. to sell papers), guess what image they'd present? Basically you guys are hanging yourselves before any case gets heard.

You need to be quite careful about your image. Present yourselves as a serious group of people, and people will take you seriously. Part of the reason I don't associate myself with your hobby is a number of you aren't serious about what you do.

As for Daniel's comment about a marshal[sic] art, I used to do re-enactment fighting many moons ago. As a result I wouldn't classify it as a martial art at all. A combat sport perhaps, but definitely not a martial art. One of the things I discovered was all that re-enactment fighting was detrimental to my pursuit of resurrecting various historical European martial arts. It took many years to get rid of my bad habits. Of course to many of you that's all irrelevant, because just "swishing an axe" makes for a martial art Hence another area those of you who take this position could get serious about (i.e. be honest).

[ChronicD]

I think there is an interesting phenomena that in forums people get argumentative over nothing.

Following the topic of the thread i was interested in the legal position that steel fighting has in NZ. I am not sure what constitutes a martial art or the difference between that and a combat sport. If you have knowledge as to how one classifies such i would be very interested in it and would really appreciate any information.

I looked at the site in your signature and understand a little now of where you are coming from. It may be that your interests are with basing your learnings off of manuscripts and scholarly writings, however to imply that that this is only way to study western martial arts and that we in the re-enactment community dont read/follow/learn from such resources and simply go around "swishing an axe" is bold.

I think you have misunderstood a key concept here i spoke of steel fighting and never mentioned re-enactment as it was not relevant to the discussion. Re-enactment is a community around the study and practising of anything and everything medieval, steel fighting is a term used to describe combat with steel blades.

As such your use of the forum to simply put down is distasteful. (from about "however" on...). A community is never going to be a rigorous entity and though i do not approve of drunks in the day, it is after all a collective effort and not an army pursuing martiallity (lol) as its sole purpose - it exists as much for us as for the public and hiccups (get it) are going to happen.

Dan

[Colin]