1mm plate steel for a NAAMA headblow helmet

[Victorius]

Want to make a NAAMA headblow helmet. Don't have any 2mm steel. If I shape a helmet using cold-raising (not dishing) using 1mm mild steel, then promptly make a sightly smaller one and fit it inside the other one, so it's actually 2mm thick in total...Will that meet general safety requirements? Or does it have to be made out of single sheets 2mm thick to start with?

[Silver]

WOW that sounds like far too much effort.
if you can can make two 1mm cold then why not make one 2mm helm
afterthought though is there headblow at naama (I havent been for a while)

[Victorius]

Two things:
1. I don't have any 2mm steel (it is expensive?), but I have nearly 2 square metres of 1mm.
2. Forming 1mm is easy, but my little amount of hot-rolled 1.6mm that I made my visors from was a real pain to form - so what would 2mm be like?
I haven't been to NAAMA for years, I meant the normal way most of us fight when we fight people from other clubs (except when doing Historical Combat of course).

[ChronicD]

Hello there

The Naama requirement for 2mm steel for helms is based on the helms use for headblow. It has been through years of experience that we have learned that anything less them 2mm (though 1.6mm properly treated would be adequate for naama headblow IMHO) would not bear up to the damage caused. Should one use something thinner it would be susceptible to crushing damage and the wearer being stuck in his helm. It is possible that thinner metals when treated correctly would suffice, but how does one measure and marshal it. Rather make a rule for 2mm and not worry whether it is steel or brass and how it has been treated.

Now one could say that "I will not do headblow" but it would be a headache for the marshals to manage!!! In other words the potential for an accident would increase dramatically.

Your idea to use two 1mm bowls one inside the other in my eyes not full fill the naama requirements as over its use the first might crack and give independent of the second inner one. then after the first has a week point, you may as well be wearing a 1mm helm.. You could suggest that you would weld them together around the edge and at points across the dome - but it would not suffice. the area where the two bowls are not physically joined would be where the outer plate took all the force until it failed and then the inner plate would follow suite. it is almost like having a backup 1mm helm waiting for the 1st to fail. lol

I am saying things you probably already know, but bear with me...

You say you have 2 sq m of 1mm steel and you want to use it. I would suggest you use it for something else and buy a small piece of 2mm for the helm (the helm is the most inportant and under the most stringent of rules).

1mm steel is not good for to many things - in platemail it is the thickness, curves and ridges that give strength. It depends on how small these curves are - in other words using 1mm steel for a breast plate would be asking for it to be bent in half - but instead if you made the 1mm steel in to scales and made a scale vest - it would suffice just fine (as long as the scales were small enough and had a curve to them). Though the scale vest of 1mm would suffer in the long run it will outlast the 1mm breastplate by an age.

Therefore i would suggest you take the 1mm and use it for things like gauntlet finger lames, scales and practice - you can use it to quckly make something to test a pattern and make sure things work!!!

I hope this helps and i am sorry to point out that there are not any ways around the 2mm rule for naama and other styles (all headblow styles i know of use this rule). It is for your safety and so that your kit will last longer. - I remember a few years ago that conal had a viking? helm that had a nasel guard that was 3 pieces of 2mm steel = 6mm toatle. This also extended as a strip over the crown of the helm where it criss-crossed with another going down the sides. however it was still a 2mm bowl underneath. Have you still got it conal?

anyway im sick of typing
Dan

[Ben]

[Bogue]

Victorious asked:-

[psyclone]

Question: Where is a good place to get sheet steel and flat bars in Auckland

[Ben]

I get sheet from Vulcan Steel in East Tamaki, stainless from Corus Metals and Flat bar (spring steel for weapons) from Archers Auto Springs in Takanini. for mild go to Fletchers Easysteel in Penrose or Steel and tube (wherever they are). for fencing mesh go to The Locker Group in East Tamaki

For more options try the yellow pages for one near you - you may notice that my sources are generally within walking distance from work...

[stephan]

just as a side note ..........

when you talk about spliting helms from the force of blows and possible fracturing the helm

i have never seen a helm split ,ever or even heard of one


besides when you are hitting hard enough to cause this kind of damage
you better bloddy be wearing a thick gambeson and full 2mmplate
as helms are usualy harder than bones

[ChronicD]

You say you have never seen a helm split. i think this is because almost (i cant be absolute here) all helms you would have seen - especially those being used for re-enactment are at least 1.6mm and mostly 2mm thick. i can assure that after you have received a good hit to 1mm and then had to ping it back out a couple of times you have effectively cold worked the steel and made it much more brittle and after a couple of these occurances, fractures will occur and then cracks and then its simply not safe.

[Victorius]

Thanks everyone,

The gap issue between the two layers can be overcome by riveting the two layers together, therefore making two 1mm sheets that are fairly close together, into something that actually is 2mm thick...

But probably not worth it...

So, looks like when I make it, it's off to get some 2mm plate.

[Freebooter]

[Ben]

[Bogue]

Ben gave us this absolute pearler:-

[Ben]

Like I said - I dont do spun bowls, never have

Interesting that they vary so much though...