Banning swords

[Thaner]

[kiwifruitbat]

The interesting thing about rumours is that they only require one point of view.

Having been out of the WMA/Re-enactment circle in NZ for a good year or so now (the odd training never counts as properly getting back into it), I don't feel qualified to really say what is good and what isn't... and so I'll just repeat what the best trainer I ever had said.

"We do this because it's fun. What is authentic for one person is not for another... but whatever you do, please don't be a weekend warrior and take some pride in your kit."

Make what you will of that one - for me, it is to have fun in what we do, to respect others styles and opinions and to do the best you can with what you have.

FTR - I heard fourth hand about the plastic swords and drunken individuals. The matter was dealt with so negative image can easily be balanced with self-policing and quiet matter handling.

Take care all - I miss the lot of you here in the US.

Fruitbat

[Vana]

[Colin]

Oh for pity's sake I didn't realise I needed to spell out everything in minute. So what do "most naama fighters" research and study? I've been around numerous NAAMA-affiliated clubs, even some fairly recently. Are you going to claim "most naama fighters" go off and research and study I.33 as an example? What do they do when almost all targeting is illegal to that rule-set? A stab-knock to the chest is not the same as a stab-knock to the face. In fact the trajectory can make the former hazardous to ones health whereas the latter keeps one safe (assuming of course relatively equal heights). This all has to do with triangulating the attack, so as a result the chest strike version is dumb. How on earth would "most naama fighters" rectify this, if at all?

As for "backseat driving", what's so difficult to understand? I don't claim to be an expert on WMA. For a starter I don't read the original languages of the various fencing treatises very well. Ergo, I need to rely on other people's translations. IOW to claim expertise I need to learn French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and possibly Polish. At the moment I can only read a smattering of key words.

Then of course I'm, unlike the various claims here, open to re-interpretation (IOW I've been wrong). Admittedly people who talk out of a hole in their arses tend to get ignored, but in October last year (2008) I once again changed an important aspect of the fight due to being confronted with a different interpretation. I didn't go with the other interpretation, but came up with an alternate fix and my current re-interpretations are dealing with the ramifications of such. For example last Monday my original interpretation of schielhau was failing, so it needed mildly adjusting. If I was some sort of expert, I wouldn't need to do this type of thing. I'd already know it. I've gone through this scenario more times than I can remember.

I'm also dealing with the six common positions in I.33, which I've yet to fully re-integrate. I'm liking it more and more, but to say I've got how each position is definitely assumed from the patient's counter-attack is presumptuous (my recent re-interpretation has blown away my original assumptions). It's a very interesting puzzle. It has forced me to re-examine the lying the folds in the cloaks, the hand positions, and even how they're standing (especially tippy-toed). Curiously my new interpretation enables the "tippy toed" position, and one of Callum's students has volunteered a robe. It will be interesting to see if it matches the pictures.

Possibly boring to you, but in my mind means I've still got a long way to go.

[Robbo]

Completely on topic for sword banning. No thread drift what so ever.

[gt1cm2]

gee this topic sounds familar

http://www.gatheringdarkness.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1056&highlight=

[Victorius]

[Victorius]

Back to the banning swords topic...

Do Maori groups train with taiaha etc in public areas, or (semi) private places like Marae?

Likwise, what about Scottish groups doing their sword dances, or various parade grups that have sabres at their waists?

If anyone knows about these groups, can we know what they do about their weapons? Have they considered any of the potential problems we're currently (?) discussing? After all, we're not the only groups who use swords and pre-firearm weapons. If so, what have they come up with?

[pmel018]

Hi Guys
WOW this went a bit hostile
I saw Colins comment regarding the Taupo event late last night and restrained myself from replying Needn't have bothered, well done to those who challanged his assumption that hearsay was actual evidence
A brief read of Colins own forum will reveal his own complaints about similar tresatment from the reenactment community I guess you can have it both ways

To the people who put in the work and effort for Taupo 2009, BLOODY GOOD SHOW!!!!! I was at the first one and could only see great potential for promoting Reencatment and WMA(with or without Colin).

The "swords" used by the Scottish country dancers are almost always horrible aluminium replicas that only vaguely resemble an actual weapon. At the top level dancers do dance over real swords, in every case that I have seen they have been heavily blunted regimental pattern items.
I hope to get to a Games in Scotland and will pay special attention. The very strict knife laws in Scotland make specific exemptions for weapons carried while in national dress, this includes dirks, swords, targe and the ubiquitous sgian dhu.

Wow lots to cover here, must have a lie down
Phil

[Mad Jim]

Banning swords is rediculous, trying to keep all people happy is rediculious

[BigMac]

[Colin]

Taupo was supposed to be a backdrop rather than a focal point. Take what you will, but one of those who mentioned the drunks used to do re-enactment years ago. I suppose he's got a "political agenda" and thus can be dismissed. (The commonality of all those who mentioned the drunks all have young children). At any rate, even if the whole scenario was based on people with plastic swords, the general public aren't discerning. None of those that told me about it described them as plastic weapons people, but rather as re-enactors or "medieval people".

Personally Taupo is almost a non-event. It might be important to you, but it isn't to me. It would be a complete non-event except people proceed to tell me about it I'm already tired of being embroiled over something as I said was supposed to be a backdrop. From my point of view I used it because it was a.) recent and b.) theoritically neutral (gosh was I mistaken). That you're feeling jolly good about yourselves is great and you can dismiss negatives as belonging to "other people". Certain members of the public don't agree. You can either accept this or you cannot. It doesn't invalidate my point I was trying to raise: that being a negative image.

*****************

Mike, it's an interesting question about when martial arts developed in the first place. Given various pre-writing depictions of stick-fighting and the like, I'd say "what worked" developed before writing, i.e. killing has been around a long time. Certainly some of the language of the ancient Greeks indicate a presence of military adventure (e.g., the hypotenuse).

The first "pioneers" did brilliantly, but then those people predated WWI (Francesco Novati, Captain Alfred Hutton et al). They did so mostly because they worked with the source material. What you most likely refer to was "theatrical fencing". A system designed for actors to use on stage. The teeth of martial content being removed (it has no concept of time and measure for example). That someone tried to use this as the basis for fighting was bizarre. Trying then to defend that result as a martial art is also bizarre. Just because someone swings a stick in his backyard doesn't make it a martial art. Children do that all the time.

******************

As for banning swords. As I keep stating, I'm unaware of any attempt to restrict swords. My point was if you're paranoid about any such legislation was to keep your own area clean first (it then divulged into whether or not political agendas exist or not It's amazing what people will take out of context.)

******************

The limited knowledge I have of training with Maori weapons is that they run like typical martial art schools. They're mostly private, but do public displays every so often. In fact the ones I've directly dealt with are extremely keen to run them exactly like other martial art schools and want to be seen as legitimate martial arts.

Scottish groups that use swords are similar (though Philip is correct in that they're usually aluminium). Most training in the dances occur in halls (i.e. private) and do public displays like at St Andrew day celebrations.

Not to say there aren't exceptions, but the ones I've dealt with follow this pattern.

[Stuart]

Can we all stop falling out with each other, slagging each other off , and get back to re-enactment, WMA, or whatever.
-and close this thread.

[NigelT]