Non period materials for tents

[Gregor]

Hi all
How do people feel about using non period materials in parts of tents that are not visible? For instance I have seen designs for an Aframe norse tent that used steel tubing for parts of the frame.
Specifically I am interested in a Iron age/Dark age celtic persona and I thought that a Bender tent http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/bender.htm might be siutable. The design calls for felixable saplings for the frame. As I did not want to go around chopping the shit out of trees every time I put the tent up I started looking for alternatives and I found a design that uses PVC pipe for the uprights, into a wooden ridge pole.The whole thing is covered by canvas tarpolines so the frame would not be visible from the outside.
I am not for or against the idea I am just interested to see how much abuse it would attract.

Cheers Gregor

[BigMac]

PVC? or fiberglass/sailbatten? The type of PVC pipe I'm famillier with wounldn't bend like in the diagram.

As to non period marterials I say use what works. There are some things we just can not replicate for verious reasons and something like poles wouldn't stop you from living in a historic way IMO.

One way to shut up Autho nazi's would be to do it with green saplings once so you can say you did and then get on with the living part of Living history.

TTFN

[NigelT]

I wonder if you could use willow for this purpose - it's pretty bendy even when dry. Failing that how about using a bundle of thinner poles instead of one thick pole - it will potentially give more flexibility and a degree of protection (if one component pole breaks it won't necessarily take out the whole bundle).

The other way to do this is to steam-bend or laminate poles to shape and transport them bent. I've done it for my yurt so I know it's possible... just tricky.

Nigel

[ChronicD]

The strength of an element is in part defined by its surface area. proportionally this is why it is harder to bend a hollow bar then it is to bend a solid one of equal cross sectional mass area. (wow im not sure if that makes any sense!!!).

A better example would be a sword we all know that fluting/the blood groove increases strength - this is an example of the greater surface area making the object more rigid. its a bit more complicated then that - but if you want to learn that - go pick up a first year structural engineers book text book

In any case my point is that Nigel suggestion to use multiple poles will increase the rigidity of the poles as a group - compared with a pole of equal thickness to the bunched group - I am assuming that the poles will be bound at intervals along its length.

This is not bad thing as it would allow one a smaller (total) diameter of bundled poles then one solid through pole.

Following nigels next suggestion to steam the poles - if you are to bind them together you could curve when binding - this would allow you to steam one smaller/thinner piece at a time and bind it to the guide / first one which will hold it in place

All in all it is a possibility well worth exploring.

Dan

[Freebooter]

Most benders I've known have been a lot less designed than the one you're showing, although this would be a fairly comfortable design.

Traditionally willow or hazel was used in the construction, as it is whippy and bends well into the shape. In NZ, you're looking at willow, as I've not encountered a lot of wild hazel down here.

If you're looking for a synthetic option, I suggest making a canvas, leather or hessian slip to cover the poles, and then using the flexible fiberglass poles from a modern dome tent.

Don't get fixated on the central ridge pole, most I've known don't have one of these. See what you can do with an old tarp and a bunch of flexible rods first.

Above all, experiment. It's the simplest design in the world, after all, you're making a canvas cave. I've seen them with bedrooms tacked onto the sides. seperate spaces for fires (inside the tent) and food preperation. Generally speaking, the only limit of your ambition is the amount of canvas you can scrounge.

Nic

[Gregor]

Thanks for the advice guys.Anyone have any pictures?

[Freebooter]

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=bender+tent&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

[Gregor]

Thanks Nic.
Anyone have any photos of benders at reenactment camps?

Thanks

[Freebooter]

Other than Bledin's bivouac, and a chap I used to know as authenti-Dave sleeping under furs (without a tent) at events in England, I've never seen anything remotely benderlike at a re-enactment event.

N

[Gregor]

Why is that do you think?

[Freebooter]

I'd say there are lots of reasons.

Like I said, it's a canvas cave.

The bender really doesn't have historical provenience. Think of it as a modern old-fashioned tent. In Britain, it's associated with travellers and doesn't really have a good rep. Which probably explains why you don't see them at re-enactments.

At the end of the day, it is your choice as to what you wish to bring along and sleep under. If you made a good looking, reasonably symmetrical tent that nobody felt embarrassed to be near, you'd probably be fine, just maybe not in the middle of a living history camp.

nic

[anglosaxonz]

this may or may not be relevant - I have been looking into gypsy / nomadic / persian styles of tents and I think part of the reason we don't see benders at camps is most of us do not choose to re-enact that particular part of history as Gypsy people have been considered outsiders away from the main grouping of people and in many cases overseas still live like that so there is a "negative association" to the gypsy styles in general.

The other thing Persian people did was put a group of tents together - sort of like a tent city, the benders would be like a small sleeping area hidden out back by the lower class or servant quarters and the more noble would have larger tents - square tents seem to be mostly pictured and the richer people perhaps even "royalty" had pavilions
with a big community tent / open shelter for gathering

Now I have a question
Does anyone have any links as to Large persian day shelters and/or tents
and how to go about constructing/making one
thanks

[Boyd]

Have a shifty at this site: www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/

I think there was a extant middle-eastern tent from C15th? Somewhere on that site...

Cheers

Boyd