Shield Thickness

[Victorius]

Was wondering about the best thickness for flat oval shields for use in both shield-wall and duelling combat. I've made two blanks, one at 16 mm, the other at 8mm with a reinforced back. Bosses will go on both. The 16 mm feels heavy, and cannot be easily wielded for striking or deflecting, as in historical combat, whereas the 8 mm will easily do that, but may not withstand repeated blows to the edges in a shield wall.

I'll be testing both at BC Camp. At this point, there doesn't seem much point in going to the effort of putting edging on (either rawhide or other leather), as they may suffer too much damage.

So, a number of responses are possible, or comments from all/any about my chosen dimensions:
1. What shield thickness is the best for historical combat? Roman shields typically ranged from 10mm through to 25 mm thick (there being no standard from those shields and bronze edgings that survive).
2. What thickness were Norse shields (I have the diameter of the various ship-finds, but not their thicknesses)?
3. What thickness was used for later Medieval shields?

This should possibly go in "Reenactment Combat", but I was hoping to apply them using historical techniques (shield-strikes, deflections etc), hence this forum.

[Robbo]

Norse shields varied considerably...as you'd expect from an independant people. :s

There are finds with shields a mere 10mm thick...and from there they go range up to literally INCHES thick! I shudder at that thought of the man that used that monstrosity.

However, given hat the round shield was the primary means of defence you can see how they'd want such huge pieces. :p

I'll see if I can't dig out the info we have on them for you Victor, and I'll try and bring it to BC for you.

[Nathan]

Being medieval is my thing:

Construction of the Black Prince's Shield is a good illistration of the 14th Century heater shield.

The shield of the Black Prince


..made of poplar wood glued on both sides with layers of linen, on the front with paper finished with gesso. The applied heraldic charges are made with boiled leather shaped in high relief fixed by small tacks. It is painted and gilded; the fields are punched over with numerous small crosses.

Steane, John The archaeology of the medieval English monarchy 1999



The Black Prince’s Shield is 73cm tall and about 60.5cm wide. The shield body is made from 15mm thick poplar and is slightly concave. It is made from two separate boards connected together. The wood core is covered with several sheets of canvas. Over the canvas is a top coat of paper(!), which in turn is topped with leather. The leather forms the top coat, and is held on with shield mounts and with brass nails. On the front side of the shield are the Arms of England and France: Right top and left bottom, on a blue field golden fleurs-de-lis; and left top and right bottom on a red field, three gold leopards stacked over each other.

The arms are built up of molded leather relief, then gessoed and gilded. The claws, eyes and tongues of the leopards are additionally painted. The background of the arms is painted. The individual quarters were originally separated by appliquéd turned cords. All of the blue and red fields are stippled with numerous small punched crosses. On the French quarters they are diagonal, and on the English quarters arranged horizontally. The back of the shield is covered with canvas and painted green.

There are no remains of the hand or arm straps, or of the guige. Only four holes in the shield indicate the points where these must once have been fastened. According to the reconstructed version made at the Tower of London the shield only had one hand and one arm strap.

Chamberlin, John M. V , trans. “The Shield of the Black Prince,“ Der mittelalterliche Reiterschild. Kohlmorgen, Jan. Karfunkel Verlag. 2002.


The shield is made of poplar, covered with successive layers of white canvas, plaster, paper and leather. To the leather surfaces of the front are applied the quarterly charges of fleurs-de-lis and leopards, boldly modeled in leather in high relief, and affixed by small brads. Traces of gilding and of red colour on the tongues of the leopards can still be seen. The ground of the four squares is punched with a spotted diaper to enrich the effect. The cruciform punch marks have been ingeniously slanted at different angles in the quarters of France and England respectively to give variety. Curiously enough there is no trace of the label of cadency ever having been on the shield. The back of the shield is covered with canvas originally painted green or blue, of which faint trances remain. Any hand-straps (or “enarmes”) which it may have had are gone, but holes show where they may have been fixed. The two loops near the top were probably placed there for attaching the shield above the tomb. The only other comparable English shield is that associated with the monument of King Henry V in Westminster Abbey. In this case the charges on the front have vanished completely, but the velvet pad at the back for the hand and wrist have survived.

Mills, Dorothy and Sir James Mann. Edward The Black Prince: A Short History and The Funeral Achievements. J.A. Jennings LTD: Canterbury. 1975.

I will be making some similar for sale very soon.

[fulhugi]

My shield is 8mm and has lasted me over a year now....... but would not last another one!
It had a leather edging on it but once that was split or got worn the ply eats away very fast!! Yes it was light az and very easy to throw around but it hasnt lasted that long.
My next shield i will make out of 10mm maby 12mm.
I cant wait for the next display to destroy it.
It will break apart in combat with any luck.

All in all i think 8mm was to thin.

[Gaius Drustanus]

Any Reenactment shields will last/survive much better in one on one combat or shield wall if edged with Doggy Chew/Rawhide as recommended by the well known combat experienced British reenactment group"Britannia" in several publications and exampled by the 3rd century Eastern shields found relatively intact in the sands at the city of Dura Europus (in Tower 12 etc) by the French/American archeological team in the 1930s on the Euphrates river.

These are far and away the best examples of ancient shields surviving into modern times and they are not uniform. Every one on the site (about 19 were found in total) is different (as you would expect from people who enjoy their freedom). Good info on these can be found in "Roman Military Equipment" by Bishop and Coulston. Second edition is good.

Recently I noticed a photo of a 1st century AD rectangular black Irish shield recovered from a peat bog (photo in a book on Celtic archeology) covered in black leather (just like the older rectangular black Leg II Aug club ones) and just like those ones, edged with RAWHIDE/DOGGY CHEW around the rim. Without edging its my experience that the shields fail very quickly.

With edging ours have lasted well.

As far as I have seen in my books, Norse shield archeological examples might often be votive offerings cobbled together at the last minute to hang off the side of a Viking Ship at the sacrificial burial of royalty or nobility (eg Gokstad or Oseberg etc). Looking fragile, they are possibly not for wartime use (Examples like this were found in Normandy). I'd be interested in archeological examples that are clearly for combat use.

[Robbo]

Fine.

Easier for me to nod and smile, than it is to debate it.

Rob's right, *shrug* care.

[Carl]

Robbo are you Ok?

you just conceded to Rob

are Ok you sure.

[Gaius Drustanus]

Robbo, what has happened to you? Do you feel well? We could send the Valkyries around to provide rescucitation!

[Gaius Drustanus]

Though Leah might have something to say about that.

[Victorius]

[Nathan]

Reenforcement of the edges tends to strengthen the entire shield. I am planning on making a curved heater of laminated ply so that the finished blank is 8-9mm. I am then going to cover the face of the shield in 2 layers of cloth using a milk glue, and finish with gessoing the surface.

In this manner the finished shield will be light and fast but but strong.

Will be an interesting experiment.

If it works I'll make some for sale.

[Gaius Drustanus]

Good points Victor. We would like to hear about your conclusions in due course.

[pmel018]

Hi Guys
not sure exactly what period shield you are looking at but here is a reasonable summary of Viking shield technology http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html

Phil

[Robbo]

[PopTart]

From my own personal experience, I've found that 10mm is satisfactory. Most of the time in single combat I am using the shield to provide deflection rather than absorption (at least that is my intent ), and 10mm allows it to still be light enough to move fairly easily if needed. In a shield wall, it's lack of thickness isn't an issue, as you are overlapping with shields on either side, which spreads impact from your shield to those on either side anyway.

In terms of durability, well, my last one died after about 2 and a half years. Having said that, I am rough on them. Also, Denyse had thrown a semi-live javelin into it at the last Tatum NAAMA which put a hole in it (looked good btw!). I continued to use it until 2008 Armidale where I took it with the express purpose of destroying it.

This shield (like my current one) was 10mm ply, hardwood handle across the diameter, steel boss, rawhide edge, and two layers of glued calico and painted. I made sure that it was getting the proverbial smashed out of it through the entire event, and it wasn't falling apart any further than the small hole D had put in it!
In the end I had a bunch of 6 mad Aussies (after it'd survived the Holmgang!!) lining up to beat it up, and it was only the use of a semi sharp 11C broadsword, at full power, into the edge of the shield, that it gave up the ghost.
And even then that was only after snaring said broadsword and having the wyrm painted to the shield refusing to let it go!!

So, yeah, 10mm should be fine...

My two brass coins worth
Willz