13th century Garde-de-corps help..

[Mad Jim]

Has anybody made a garde-de-corps tunic in the style from the Macejowski bible pictures?

I haven't yet found a good enough pattern, or reference to the arm slits.

Some pictures show the arm slits infront of the arms, and other pics show the slits possibly from under the arms. Later styles show these slits comming from the sleaves them selves and with hood and top buttons.
any help would be well..helpful cheers...Jim.

[Boyd]

have you seen this site?

www.companyofoutremer.com/gardecorps.htm

[Mad Jim]

Yea I did find that site, and they describe the Garde-de-corps as having the best place for the slits along the seams, which seem ok, although looking into varios pictures you can see parts of the arms and under garment through the slits when the arms are through the sleaves which leads me to think that the slits are ever so slightly forwards of the seam or sitting in front of the sholders as depicted.
My partner said that some female clothes that you can get today have the same sort of make up with the slits forwards somewhat.
Though looking and relooking at the Macejowski pictures it looks to me that the sleaves are fully attached and the slits are supposed to be forwards.....tricky dicky! looks I'll just have to make one and hope that it works first time ahah...

[Kotek]

Or, you could just assemble the body and sleeves separately and then stitch the sleeves on, but only half-way. It would be especially easy 'cause it would just be a simple bag-lined creation..

[Boyd]

Perhaps you may need change the shape of the armseye?

I tried something similar and it didn't quite work so I made a bow bag instead...

Paused for dinner!

Admittedly though I was aiming for a Hauke like this

[Mad Jim]

hey Cheers Boyd, I may just use that pattern, so far it looks more on the surcoat side, but made of wool!, still it could be a sleaveless gardecorps...

[Boyd]

The Hauke was a wet wheather garment like a poncho - it was only attached at certain places along the sides

maybe you should try something like this;

[Mad Jim]

yea that one seems to be more in tune with the Macejowski bible pictures, cheers. I like the birds eye view it gives it that extra help..
It has been a trial and error affair, the only thing I vaguely knew how to make were hose, and with bad sewing!
But now I have a sacky tunic [its ok for a first go], two pairs of hose, a good fitted tunic [more for late 14th than 13th, but whos gonna say] two hoods and a pair of crusader style thigh to knee gambiosed leggings.

All tightly sewed and by hand. The main thing I have learned is sleaves can be a drama, and when using wool blankets that to make sure its all the same weave [for one garment] and that blankets with colours ie: stripes can be an arse to dye out!, other than that I have had lots of fun making them, and do wear them around the house!

[Boyd]

For some of my blanky garments I was inspired by a viking kit made from blankies where the stripes were used to make a striped bottom of the skirt and the ends of the sleeves. You just have to be clever in how you cut out the pieces.

Cheers

Boyd

[Chantelle]

hello,

you can tell me to go away and that i am talking out of ...well...somewhere but....

if the pictures are verified from the time period - ie actually from a panel / manuscipt / carving etc etc then all those options may be exactly what they are - options...

there were no formal patterns, trade happened between villages etc and people travelled and saw stuff, took stuff back - but with no standardised rule of how things were made (no standardised measurement either - they varied from place to place even if they had the same name...) - and with lots of different people making them (not just people to which that was their job...so everday people making their own clothes as well...) every example you see (as long as it is not copied, or referenceless etc) may well be true to that time at that place made in that way.

people, just like today looked at things others were wearing and would make it later etc...carry the design or idea in their heads, and unless one guy is turning out mass produced clothing items that everyone was buying and wearing ...you are going to get difference and slight variations.

After spending a month in eng and a month in germany and some time in italy(and all three don't just have their own artifacts/paintings in each museum/ gallery) doing nothing but researching into garb/artifacts/jewellry etc from early medieval through to around 1620...the variance that i have seen and recorded in paintings and sculture etc from the same regions in the same time periods is inspiring

We discussed this in reference to Viking kit at Taupo this year, and it exemplifies the point - welly bex made an outfit whe she was first starting the way the pattern or book told her to - it was useless around the fire etc as it kept swinging towards it. Later with a little bit of herself thrown into the making process she made a slightly altered design still in keeping with research, and it worked in a living history way perfectly around the fire etc. - point to the story.....trial and error and what works based on historical research, referencing and and looking at multiple reliable sources

awesome that you have looked at all the options and so cool that you are making cool stuff with such attention to historical accuracy! and Boyd is an awesome man with awesome knowledge xx

just remember there is more than one way to skin a cat - but if you have never done it before it may be a little messy... at first...with many metaphorical cats tested on....but it is all good (sorry to the cat lovers out there...)

xx