Any lessons from Easter Camp?

ChronicD · Sponsor Location: Sweden

I wish you a speedy recovery mate. But you know you are a lucky bugger not to have lost it.

as for rules and regulations etc... basically i would say i dont know enough and am not up to date in any way shape or form. But i can make the observation from the few events i have been to over the last couple of years (basically as a spectator). The NZ historical re enactment community is going through some very rapid changes, many many new combat forms are being introduced to an ever growing number of people. Combat archery is a great example but i would also like to point towards the various events at the tourney in Taupo.

Basically what i am saying is that it seems that we are not keeping up with the changes and as such mistakes are being made - the unfortunate result is people get hurt. No ones fault just a fact that we play with weapons.

I have no suggestions - only an observation that may or may not help.

at least i hope to make you think about it.

Dan

Angel · Site Admin Location: Wellington

Fungus · Location: Taranaki

as to the "Archery combat rules" I wasnt at Easter weekend so I dont know if the requirements where followed but I do know that for an arrow safe helmet no gap wider than 5mm is allowed.
and as to the rules as a whole I will state now that any more training weekends that I run will use Nigels rules
If people dont like that then dont turn up

Stuart · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:11 pm

So you advocate no change, and you wait around until the next accident ?
-is that really a responsible strategy ?
Ban the head-shots and the problem goes away. How simple is that ?

It worked at the last NAMMA.

Angel · Site Admin Location: Wellington

Before you advocate changing any rules, it would pay to find out if the rules as they currently stand were being followed at the time of the incident.

If the rules say no gaps bigger than 5mm without mesh, and this incident was able to happen because there was a gap bigger than 5mm with no mesh, then it isn't the rules at fault.

I'm not aware of the circumstances of the earlier injury - were all the rules followed in that case?

If so, then it would be worth looking at which particular aspect allowed a failure to happen - eg if it was mesh fixed internally in a helmet, allowing it to be blown in, then requiring mesh to be fixed externally so it can't be blown in would be a solution, or specifying standards for the grade of mesh allowed, if it was due to deformation.

I know the standards of my helmet and mesh are sufficient that a shot in the head or face is the _least_ likely to cause injury, as it's the best armoured.

In non-headblow combat you still have to wear a helmet, even though it's not a target, that's because accidents happen.

If heads and faces aren't a target they should still be sufficiently protected against accidental shots (I'm not a fan of safety glasses as the only protection, as they don't protect the rest of the face), and if your protection standards are such that a shot to the face isn't going to cause injury, then you can quite easily choose to make it a target.

Anyad · Site Admin Location: Upper Hutt

Fungus · Location: Taranaki

The difference, Stuart, will be that anyone taking the field to take arrow fire will have been vetted and given the OK to be out there. By me. (or Nigel or Redbeard).

The rules dont need changing, as when they are applied correctly, they work.

Fungus

Freebooter · Principal Sponsor Location: Hamilton

Couple of points from me...

1) Fogging goggles: A small cube of onion rubbed over the inside surface solves this issue. Old Skiier's trick.

2) The rules work fine, if the combat gear standards are applied. Fix the gear, fix the problem.

3) What shot at Hamilton, Stuart? I assume that was one of my events, please be more specific. (or are you making up stories again?)

4) One accident does not invalidate the status quo, it just calls for a closer investigation of why it happened. From all accounts this is a random accident, which is going to happen the more we do of this.

I wish Craig the speediest recovery possible, and congratulate him for having a truly impressive campfire story. Let it be a lesson to us who enjoy being shot at that we should attend to our gear and hold no grudges over accidents.

Get well soon.

Nic

Brithem Rig · Location: Ward 31

I have the arrow in question, we are going to mount it for haggis, and I have seen the helm, it was a 1 in a million fluke. The shot did not hit him front on but from a slight angle, this tore the skin below his eye ripping out one of his tear ducts. I do not know if safety glasses, goggles or mesh would have prevented this or made it worse. The important thing is that haggis is fine with no loss of vision.
As to aiming at the head, that sounds more like something they would do in the UK, here in NZ we like each other too much to risk injuries and as we saw at Easter, accidents will happen even amongst experienced combatants. Anybody who continues to say that Dee was aiming for a head shot, can discuss it with me on the battlefield.
Remember we are using real weapons that can do real damage and I support all efforts to reduce the chance of similar incidents.

Stuart · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:37 pm

Nick Harrison wrote:
"What shot at Hamilton, Stuart? I assume that was one of my events"

- you assume wrongly.

Nathan · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:11 pm

Mad Jim · Location: Dunedin

gosh from a person far away point of view, it seems that this is turning into a mini drama, from what I have read, and those involved have made peace and those in charge are rectifying the problem..so really all should be happy...

Gaius Drustanus · This account is inactive Location: auckland

I agree with Mad Jim. Let Bygones be bygones. Don't put out the Fire with Gasoleine. Bury the Hatchett. You'll catch more flies with Honey than Vinegar. Water under the Bridge. Least said, soonest mended! Let sleeping dogs lie!

paegynwaye · Location: Eketahuna

3 facts: I was not deliberately aiming for Craig's head.
:It was a totally random fluke event which happened.
: Craig and I have both learned and grown from thys.
What a wonderful community we have around us, that support is rallied for those that need it....random acts occur, of kindness, of hate, of love.....
Combat archery is a great game, and the risk's, have now become quite obvious, if anybody had any doubts before..The way forward is to revise and analyse a situation, and understand that random acts occur no matter how well in place safety requirements are for archer or infantry, accidents do, and can happen.. Head shots will always happen in combined arms, intentionally or not. Tis easier when it is one on one, to be aware of the incoming arrow, yet when there is a number of archers firing at once,it is not so easy to keep track of their flight path, upping the risk ante of head shots...therefore in light of the present direction, the safety protocols that are in place work for the best part of it....The God's play their hand as they see fit...

paegynwaye · Location: Eketahuna

Sorry folk's. just needed to add that last comment.... I look forward to the next time of Non-injury combat archery wyth very brave infantry facing their hail-storm ......