Dark Age and early Medieval sword work.

[Gerard Kraay]

I was having a talk the other night to a Norse mate and we were discussing Dark age sword work and the sorry lack of manuals.

I am of the opinion that if we look at the latter period medieval manuals we will find systems that were build on the past. Since all the manuals have so much in common around the basics it stands to my reasoning that Dark Age and early Medieval sword work must be very similar.

Bellow is a little excerpt written by Paul Wagner I like –

[Colin]

From the so-called Doebringer manuscript (1389):

"Here begins Master Liechtenauer’s art of fencing with the sword, on foot and on horseback, in armour and without. And before all things you should know and understand that the sword is only one art and it was devised and thought out hundreds of years ago."

13V. Translation by David Lindholm, emphasise mine.

14R & V. Refer to play-masters who think they've come up with new moves, but that they come down to 1. It's simply a new name to an old move or 2. It doesn't work in real fencing (outside playing).

So yes, you're right. The late medieval fencing treatises are based on earlier fencing systems. Both Liechtenauer and Liberi went around and learned from a wide range of masters before assembling 'their' art. I.33 is pretty much a system where the priest advocates how to beat the common fencer...noting that the term 'common' here isn't derogatory. All based on prior fencing systems.

[conal]

Colin posted some viking sagas, combat verse and what not, a while back.

Well worth swipe-ing.

I think these could stand as exploratory texts.

Constructing the supporting argument thusly : That in order for the a story teller to convincingly convey the tale they should speak within a context that is plausibly near- real to his listeners.

Yes, there are incidences of peoples legs coming clean off in the Sagas. (With a Norse sword the likelihood?)

But more commonly everyone gets a good maiming.

And those shots that hit are fairly well described.

The Old English poem The Battle of Maldon has some fine moments... michel geslagen... pertaining to the press of battle rather than the duel based fight comics we all know and love.

If you print the sagas out on waste paper you can read them on the loo.

[stephan]

i was just reading the song of roland ..
and fequently people are serverly wounded
hands off and necks cut etc from glancing shots off the helm and sheild

not that this is directly relateed but is combat in a story

[frozenthunderbolt]

[frozenthunderbolt]

Please disregard my above post. Further reading here has enlightened me to the folly of the Clements books. Apology.