Calling all Marshals (Hey, someone had to do it)

[Robbo]

OKey dokey folks, let's get this ball rolling.


May I propose a full and proper marshal's meeting followed by successive training sessions for those interested in becoming marshals or have started that path already and just need an edge up.


With Seamus blessing, I'd like to do this at Naama. I'm fully aware of the time delay, but this gives us time to discuss the issues before hand, arrange an agenda and walk in eyes open so no one feels "ambushed".

Atm the most common/senior marshals are Dave Smith, Fungus, Myself, Conal (in his saner moments :p ) and Nic Harrison. Anyone wishing to add their name to that list feel free, my mind's not perfect after all

At said meeting we can discuss what the Marshals are looking for in safety, when we feel the need to intervene (or not), how to train newer marshals, what we look for on the battlefield or tourney arena and all that jazz (sorry Liza Minelli moment).

From there we move to the field itself and with the cooperation of as many combatants as we can gather, go over our results, break it down into smaller groups of 1 marshal - group of combatants (perhaps new marshal being watched over by an experienced one).

Have the small groups of fighters slowly deliberately get rowdy so as to NEED to be pulled back in. Discuss, Peer review, start again. Newer marshals are gonna love this lol. From there we gather the groups slowly together until we're back to full blown field combat.

Preferably by this stage we've achieved a few things:
1/ New marshals who understand what & how to get involved

2/ Greater respect for fighter for fighter (remember kids, this is the basis on which ALL our respective codes and pretty words are based upon)

3/ A desperately increased number of marshals that can be called upon

4/ More respect for said marshals - for some reason people tend to forget that most of us are actually fighters who'd rather be out there doing it instead of trying to keep our friends safe, on that basis alone I often wonder why we receive so much shite?

5/ Hopefully a peer review board. "Said accident occurred on your watch, your area of the field. How'd you let it go that far brother?"

6/ Perhaps most importantly, a safety standard that MOST people can expect, respect and follow.

Alright, I think that's me for now. Hopefully it's just a place to start. As I said, I've only mentioned the senior most marshals, but we'd ALL love to see more of them/you/us. Feel free to comment, constructively, feel free to join in!

[Robbo]

Oh, I do have just ONE request. If you have NO intention of helping, if you have no interest in becoming a marshal or helping us help you guys ... then shhhhhh

Say something nice or don't say it at all lol.

[Callum]

I am obviously keen to put my hand up. However not sure if I will be going to NAAMA this year (depends where it is). However, I am looking at the idea of running a training workshop here in Upper Hutt this Winter where I can start to address the issues that occurred at my event so next time we don't see a repeat of them.

[Robbo]

Awesome Callum

Big ideas and great plans are built with small movements and a beginning. If your Mid-Winter doesn't collide with the Southern Norse plans, I'd be both keen and honored to come take part if that all right with you.

Naturally, I want time to fight as well though :p Can't preach what I can't practice.

[ChronicD]

I will be involved in this at at taupo and upper hutt.

I would also like to suggest that a result of all this is a certificate based upon peer review with possible some sort of annual review/renewal system built in every year - something like if you want to marshal at events you need to renew your certificate and partake in a marshals meeting at an event where enough marshals are meeting to give peer review.

If i am not making sense i am sorry. as an example Harcourt and NAAMA could be chosen to be places for an annual meetings of marshals to come together and talk about issues they have experienced and discuss the "rules". Basically you would then get a stamp and signature in a log book saying you attended and you are good to go for the next year.

Now people might scoff at this idea and say that i have been doing this for 20 years and know whats safe - that is not the point, the point is to have meetings and a peer review system that forces communication and discussion.

What happens if you dont get your stamp - simple you dont marshal at any event where the organizer is partaking/using this new marshalling standard.

what say ye?

Dan

[Robbo]

That's not such a silly idea dude. Logistical hell, painfully involved for all of us, but a good idea none the less

[Callum]

Hi Robbo,

When is the Southern Norse camp?

Depending on the numbers we will use my martial arts studio but the date will be subject to it's availability as another group uses it during the weekends. If people can advise me of dates of other re-enactment events in the June/July period I will try to work out a date that does not clash.

I will look at a format over the next week and if anybody has any suggestions then let me know. My idea is to have a non-competitive event but with light sparring so people can get to know each other, form rapport, learn how to cope with different styles, etc. Probably looking at a Saturday Afternoon through to Sunday Lunchtime event with time for socialising and discussing rules, marshaling and other aspects of tournament combat.

[Robbo]

I'll be talking to Thorsson soon, should have an answer for you asap on our dates callum. Thx for your patience and understanding dude On that note, we'll probably be running on a very similar format, if past events of ours are anything to judge by.

[Misty]

Hi Robbo count me in, I am wanting to be trained to be a marshall. I believe that it is a natural progression to be trained to look after my friends and mates on the field. I will be at Naama so I will see you there.

Cheers

[Robbo]

From the loving arms of our Angel *hugs*

Well worth the look over folks, and something we should give serious consideration too. Oddly, for me, it pretty much sums up everything I was hoping to bring up and achieve.

Got to love the help of other people ... Thx Angel

http://www.livinghistory.org.nz/document_library/fighters_handbook.pdf

[Chantelle]

Please do not skim read any of this

The below is broken into the ISSUES raised and the SOLUTIONS people have suggested

The SOLUTIONS are NOT the agreed upon solutions – they are simply the solutions that have been suggested so far

The below are YOUR WORDS people – taken from your posts, if i have missed anything it was not intentional – please let us know

very wise words....
we need clear communication from OLD to NEW people and then back again in all we do – so tell everyone you know about these threads and even if they don't think GD is a good forum for this / have access – help them to view it, or get them on here to follow and discuss from the beginning of the threads

When we finally come together to discuss these issues and to come to some conclusions please remember

come to the table
swallow your pride
listen respectfully
our similarities should engulf our differences
we are all there for each others sake and the love of our community and sport

Suggested steps for action now

discuss some more
consolidate
arrange a meeting place to place down some rules etc???? thoughts on this?

MARSHALLS DISCUSSION

ISSUES
Lack of experience and no consistency with the marshals

hits not counted / called which leads to frustration and poor decisions by the combatants

running a public tourney is very very hard

if you are marshal and insist on harder hits – a tournament can deteriorate


Solutions
not the marshals role to call the hits

Always have ONE marshal focused on safety

marshal to bring fighter to task for not acknowledging good hits

two warnings then out?

or one warning then out?

witty M.C. to communicate with crowd - fill in the empty moments and stir the crowd

marshals must judge fairly and communicate with the audience – exert authority over the participants

seneshal is to organise battles
tally scores
arrange fighters
(basically someone to run the lists)

two extra observer marshals to correct / advise chief marshals if there are issues

a chief mashal to set the tone of authority and competency

a special marshal to be there to spot the things the combatant missed....
armour failures
getting too close to audience
occasionally clarify what they saw in a bout

separate people keeping score

all across NZ the marshals differ – this needs to change

warm up safety bouts before an event

marshals need face protection to be able to intercede

marshal testing – i.e. lets see what they know / see if they know what is required of them

All combatants to know the rules before they begin

all competitors should treat swords as if they were sharp – marshallings rules should reflect this

in event of an accident – don't just blame – work out why injuries happened – everyone take responsibility

don't accept non-coms / friends / volunteers just because

need a place for trainers / captains to meet and discussion

fighters to focus on their fights and not be marshals

the host of the tournament has a supply of helms etc to lend if combatant doesn't have his own

volunteers should be respected

do not be rude or disrespectful to a marshal

propose a full and proper marshal's meeting followed by successive training sessions for those interested in becoming marshals or have started that path already and just need an edge up.

for the above to happen at NAAMA this year 2011

At the moment the most common/senior marshals are .....
Dave Smith,
Fungus,
Myself,
Conal
Nic Harrison.
Callum Forbes
Dan

Misty wishes to be trained as a marshal

At the meeting discuss .....
what the Marshals are looking for in safety
when we feel the need to intervene (or not)
how to train newer marshals
what we look for on the battlefield or tourney arena

From there move to the field itself and with the cooperation of as many combatants as we can gather, go over our results, break it down into smaller groups of 1 marshal - group of combatants (perhaps new marshal being watched over by an experienced one).

Have the small groups of fighters slowly deliberately get rowdy so as to NEED to be pulled back in. Discuss, Peer review, start again.
From there we gather the groups slowly together until we're back to full blown field combat.

Suggestion of a training workshop in UPPER HUTT with Callum in the winter – light sparring, non- competitive environment so people can get used to different styles and form rapport

a certificate based upon peer review with possible some sort of annual review/renewal system built in every year - something like if you want to marshal at events you need to renew your certificate and partake in a marshals meeting at an event where enough marshals are meeting to give peer review.

Harcourt or NAAMA could be the places of review to have the meetings

Do not allow complete strangers compete in tournaments

head turns to be banned

Stop - usually quiet a short sharp sound, and starts with a sibilant fricative, which has less volume
Break - the ay sound is a higher pitch than the oh sound, and break also starts with a fricative
Hold - Great initial volume, and the O sound carries well over distance

[David]

[thornforge]

On the subject of well written rule sets, here are the NVG's manuals. I find them clear and well written. They are rather long, and the combat safety is of more relevance to the present conversation, but full of good ideas:
http://nvg.org.au/documents/combat_safety.pdf
http://nvg.org.au/documents/training.pdf

To summarise for those that can't be bothered reading them:
The safety manual has clear minimums expected of armour and weapons, which varies from training to combat to display. It includes proviso's for having non-period protection if it is not visible.
The training manual includes a loose grading system that seems to be applied individually. ie: when they are competent at certain things, they can have a go at more advanced things.

[David]

[Grayson]

I'll be up for this once I'm permanently back in nz