Shields.

[Patch]

[Victorius]

That could be interesting...like what happens if some newby should decide to foolishly pull their shield aside to strike, just as the full power blow comes in?
Now a good quality gambeson might do some good, but not everyone wears one, and then there's what if it hit an elbow or some other joint?

[Stuart]

The degree of force employed in a combat is proportional to the standard of shield construction, the type, contact area and weight of weapon, and ( most importantly ) the consent of the partisipants. ?
-I think that about covers it . Anyone else ? This could become a thesis !

Regards,

Stuart.

[Njal]

I must admit that we do use MORE force when obviously striking a skjold than when striking an arm or any other target but not FULL force. Usually this is used as a decoy or feint to be followed by a controlled strike.

I should think that FULL force would never be used in steel combat?

[Joel of Old]

Full force is something that few can even comprehend, let alone withstand. A full force axe or mace strike against a shield directly behind where the arm is will break the arm.

Agree with Njal... no full force with steel, refer to Colin's entry under 'misconceptions about quarterstaff' thread.

We could only use forceful blows against a shield, in any realistic simulation of competitive violence (which is the game we're playing boys and girls), in an attempt to intimidate the opponent, or to push the shield off line.


Anything else is just damaging personal property.

[conal]

I try and use my shield to redirect rather than absorb a blow. If you can get to niety degrees of the force plane you can pretty much do what you like with the other guys energy.

I've seen an axe go straight through a shield, missed the arm so only the shield got wasted. Well not wasted really. Apparently its still hanging on the perpetrators wall with the inscription "Mine is the power" under it.

But I think the target got a new shield out of it. That right Patch?

A certain amount of Attrition in kit is to be expected.

[Joel of Old]

agreed, the correct use of a shield should be to redirect a blow, but lets examine that last one...

axe went through the shield... uh huh...

missing the arm...

My, how lucky.

Had that have gone differently we'd be regulated by now.

----

Of course if one of us was PM, sword fighting would be the national sport.
And my wouldn't that make politics lively.

[Victorius]

I had that at Taupo year before last. Spearman got annoyed I beat him three times ina row, so fourth time he went a lot harder with his spear to try to hold me off. I'd previously managed to turn his point as he jabbed, but this time I didn't, and the point went right through just above the boss. Stopped jsut short of my wrist...would have been interesting if it had gone any further.
So I can verify that turning or deflecting is the way to go, and have experienced what happens if shield takes full impact.

[conal]

Yeah, it was one of the first times I'd Marshalled.

In defence of the axeman he'd made the shield so he knew where the arm was.

Patch... hee hee... remember the look on Eamon's face though. He didn't know whether to be hacked off or relieved.

Told them both to take five and figure out how stupid they were.

In fact I think we all went back to the den and had a cup of tea.

Annie was cooking and the billy was already on, there might have been some ginger cake or carrot cake.

That was back in Dannevirke.

Frank and Nik showed up late at night. First time we ran the Inn.

S'cool.

[Anna Cruse]

Not using enough force to damage someone if they stick themselves out from behind their shield is the way to go.

When I was starting to train with a shield that was about 15mm thick on the edge my opponent struck it hard enough with his axe to leave a 2-3 cm gouge in the side. The next shot he did, with the same enthusiasm, hit my wrist which I had foolishly extended beyond the edge.

Good technique (slipping blows) doesn't always happen every time (including the first time)

If you never make mistakes, people you care about never make mistakes, your juniors never make mistakes, you don't care about the deliberate destruction of your property, and society at large doesn't care about how we injure each other THEN you don't have to care about how hard someone hits shields/ people/ weapons/ armour etc.

I teach my juniors to NEVER hit anything harder than they would hit a person, in case the person puts themselves in the way, and I show them shield counter techniques that don't require hazardous force, whilst being able to employ fun techniques like opening shields to skewer the soft vunerable oyster beneath... It's also important to teach them all the stupid ways a person with a shield can endanger themselves (and others) so they have enough awareness to minimise risk of injury on themselves when people use undue force against them, but the fact remains that the use of force is unnecessary and hazardous in the game we play.

AC

[Colin]

[conal]

This guy thought it was.

[Colin]

[conal]

A plane of force is a shield.

On another tangent... I like the way wood chews up in ablative fashion on impact.

I find with the metal rim shield you get alot of skid from the blows, not as safe and secure as the "chunk" you get from wood.

I guess if you've got enough wood you don't have to worry about skid-marks from someone trying a rim job out on you.

## Base to WRV-01A ## Fire if fired upon.

Whoosh... (insert sound of missles streaking over Colin's head)

## WRV-01A to Base ## Okay, who loaded my SRM 6 pack with inferno rounds?##

(I like Battletech) yeaaah! Geek me right out of it.

[adrianf]

the biggest problem with too much force on a sheild is that there is always the risk that the shieldman might get distracted by something, drop their sheild and the blow nails them instead.


it dosent matter how thick the shield is if the shield user dosent put it in the right place