Justifying the name: medieval martial arts

[Vorschlag]

In essence, by studying more than one master, by seeking to improve your interpretations on historical weaponry usage, you seek to improve your own personal ability. This is what I was referring to earlier. Basically, this is martial arts yes?.

If your suggesting mixing systems, you best study from John Clements who I’m told put allot of work into trying to combine arts to make a usable system, if your suggesting learning multiple systems to better understand time, distance, measure, range, body mechanics, power generation etc and find which suits your own philosophy then I believe it's a step in the right direction.

Remember however, each system does things for a certain reason, front weighting allows for different techniques than rear weighting, wards are held because of specific strengths and weakness', the half pass develops because of a more linear based fight, different actions are made in the bind based on the philosophy of the specific art.

Understanding the difference in regional and period techniques, stances, guards, wards is of benefit, trying to merge them into one system is bastardisation.
This is clearly voiced in the way that what one master may recommend another will shun, what’s applicable to one stance, ward or guard may not be applicable to another and thus the system becomes more like a sock full of holes than the complete article.

[Tristan]

[Colin]

[Robbo]

Aside from the insulting tone, quite nicely done too, I think we're saying fairly similar things. Just in different mannerisms. So let's hit that first.

If you're going to quote me, please don't do so then attempt to ridicule part of it and ignore the rest that you so kindly displayed I said "TRY to study". Success is always going to be variational. I well imagine that your cranial limitations got in the way long after mine went in search of a drink for example. You've obviously tried a lot harder than I did. I tried a little, I looked a little, couldn't find anyone to teach me better at the time. Gave up and kept with what I could do until another time. You kept at it. Very cool.

I've touched on manuscripts Colin. One of my first actions in this thread was to quite clearly state that I'm not as well read as some of you. Does that preclude me from the conversation?

Allow me some grace. Over 20 years in martial arts. Over 10 years in the naama. I've been forced to use my knowledge of combat (both armed and unarmed) for my own survival. I've had live rifles aimed at my skull, knives held to my throat and I bear the scars of assaults that don't need mentioning here. I point blank confess my knowledge of eastern philosophy and martial aspects is much higher than my knowledge of western. I think I have a fair grasp of what I'm doing though.

Coming to the heart of a system and mastering it's techniques. Seeking to improve upon what you've learnt, to become a better martial artist. These are the things I said before. I feel you're saying the same thing, just in differing words.

Here's the variance though. People see a name. George Silver or Miyamoto Musashi. Some folk give the name a demi-deity like status and decide there can be nothing better in that field. Ever. Other's look upon them as teachers. Guides. A helping hand along the road. Silver built his works on the works of others, Musashi the same. Both utilsed what worked best for them and are considered some of the best that history has to offer in their fields. I think they both understood the systems they studied quite well personally.

I'm not a big man. I'm small, but I'm fast and agile. In my toolbox you will find screwdrivers, spanners, other odd tools and an assortment of really nifty hammers. You won't find a wopping great sledgehammer though. I understand the heart of the system well enough to know that my attempting to ultise one just isn't suited to me. To heavy, to slow, I'd be too clumsy to gain the benefits of it's use and I'd attract all of it's drawbacks. Sure, I know how to use it...but doing so just doesn't suit me or my body...so why should I?

Never once have I said that studying the manuscipts of those past greats was a waste of time. In fact I've encouraged others to do so...then they can come show me! But when you compare their works, you do so with an open mind.

Btw, T.M.M. I like what you said, the way you said it and I agree.

[conal]

I keep a couple manuscripts in the toilet so I can study them when in a reflective mood. >(they are pdf prints for you bibliophiles)

I think the Tower book and good old annecdotal "George" are there at the moment.

There was something said at the start of this thread about the development of personal style.

From a physicality perspective different body types will be drawn to different applications of the "art".

E.g. One of the guys in Levin has done a bit of Tai-ha work in the past and currently is buzzing out on the similaries with illustrations of the Talhoffer stances.

Some generalisations can be made as they are representations of body mechanics and essentially "true".

[Colin]

Rob, you keep referring to heavy handed smashes. In your last post you used the analogy of sledgehammers. Where on earth do you come up with any WMA techniques revolving around the concept of "the heaviest sword and the strongest arm" or is this the grapevine/Hollywood/Egerton Castle story you've heard?

Terminology: manuscript refers to handwritten 'books'. Authors to this very day may write manuscripts (probably less likely than ever before). With the advent of the printing press came published books. Manuscripts do not, necessarily, refer to fencing treatises. The Romance of Alexander from 1346 is a manuscript, but isn't a fencing treatise. Opera Nova by Achille Marozzo is a fencing treatise, but is not a manuscript.

I'm unaware of anyone treating George Silver et al as a "demi diety" so you raising a non sequitur. I also couldn't care less how many years you've done martial arts or naama. I've regularly found people with lots of experience in either activity poor students. Not that they cannot learn the material, but because they keep insisting that their experience counts for something. Maybe it does, but often it doesn't. The more "sportified" the discipline the more of a hindrance it is.

[Robbo]

I refer to heavy handed strikes as an example. Nothing more. Lol. I never mentioned anything along the lines of "heaviest sword and strongest arm". Tbh, I'd have been damned surprised if that WAS the basis of WMA techniques. The sledgehammer analogy was in response to your toolbox...thought I'd run with the theme.

I refer to manuscripts, in an encompassing term. Feel free to use "Bob" if it suits you better.

Glad you don't know anyone who thinks of Silver that way. Wish I could say the same.

I refer to my experience for one reason and one reason only. To demonstrate that I actually have some. That I'm not completely ignorant of what I speak. That's it. I don't know of anyone who has experience in any field who enjoys being spoken to as if they had none.

In terms of my own learning, I much prefer to empty my cup of belief that the cup of knowledge can seek to fill it...to do otherwise is futile and the student only grasps a small taste of what has been offered. Learnings a wonderful thing. I try to learn something every day.

Now that I know some of your folk train in Hamilton, I'm interested in going to have a look. I have my daughters this weekend, so I guess I'll be there next weekend. From what I'm gathering, it should be both entertaining and enlightening.

[Colin]

So what do you mean by "heavy handed strikes"?

As for other MA experience it is good to know that you would start from scratch with WMA. It's the only way to get to know the material, otherwise it becomes a mess of confusion as the underlying mechanics or context often differ.

[Robbo]

Good question. I figure it to be anything involving a heavy weapon tbh. I don't use shields or two handed swords for example. Not because I can't, but because I can't use them effectively for long.

Ask anyone who knows me dude...I'm not a big guy. Fungus and Callum look massive compared to me lol.

I'm looking forward to meeting your people here. Going to try and drag a friend or two along. Like I saide mate...it's all about keeping an open mind.

[Vorschlag]

I'm only about 5'4'' to 5'5'' and i've never found using a longsword etc problematic are you sure the swords your dealing with are weighted correctly?

[conal]

um... which end do I hold it by again?

[conal]

Opera Nova by Achille Marozzo.

Did they use a printing press and woodcuts or are the illustrations plates?

Ta for that Colin.

[Colin]

[Vorschlag]

What was the weight of the two handers you've handled ?

[Robbo]

Can't recall sorry dude. It having been some time and all.