Ecce Omnes.... Pictures for Rob(the Roman)

[pmel018]

Hi Guys
not sure where this should go, but it surely is about WMA albeit early ones. A quiet trip through the British Museum(everyone else was at the Buried Army Exhibition)led me to the Roman displays and there I rediscovered this amazing helmet




very nice it is too
Regards
Phil

[Colin]

I personally consider (Roman) gladiatorial combat as part of WMA. It certainly is more on topic than the one on Gurkhas (as interesting as that was).

It all depends on where the conversation leads. If it goes into gladiatorial outfits then probably the forum on armouring. It is goes towards what gladiators did in the arena or speculation on how various bits of equipment were used or even I suppose the various rituals (in preparation) they performed then it belongs here.

But more on topic, it would be interesting to see how such a helmet was like to use, how vision was impaired (or wasn't as the case maybe). I assume they don't let you get close enough to get measurements?

[Inigo]

You can purchase similar from here in boxes of six.



If someone wants to order some made from in 2mm steel for the skull, I'll take one.

It could be a lot of fun fighting in these

[Gaius Drustanus]

A replica example of this type of Gladiator helmet is already in the club owned commissariat of Legion II Augusta.

[Inigo]

But you need TWO of them to tango...

[Gaius Drustanus]

Yes, you can do that. WE also have a secutors helmet or you can go up against a retiarius or net and trident man.

[pmel018]

[Colin]

[Gaius Drustanus]

I liked and enjoyed your Gurka stories, Phil, but I think our murmillo helmet replica in genuine bronze is pretty damned good.
FOR SALE ....... I still have a few left residual copies which were sold through the Gladiator School : 'GLADIATORS AND CAESARS' by Eckart Kohne and Cornelia Ewigleben. It details the thorough and rigorous recreationist research of the famous Roman period reenactment Dr
Marcus Junckelmann. This excellent book is available to GD readers and still sealed in the original Plastic seal at the discounted price of$45. Please forward your orders to me by Email or contact me on 027 627 2128.

[Victorius]

...It would be interesting to see how such a helmet was like to use, how vision was impaired (or wasn't as the case maybe). I assume they don't let you get close enough to get measurements?[/quote]
The Murmillo helmet owned by LEGIO II AVGVSTA is made from bronze, and is of higher quality that the replica shown. I have worn it, run around in it, been hit in the head a few times while wearing it. But it needs someone with a smaller head than mine to wear it in WMA combat-testing conditions: my head is unfortunately a little too big to wear it with an arming cap, so I have to wear it without this. Hmmm, 8kg of cold hard bronze straight on my noggin. Besides, we don't want to damage it...
However, vision is very good. I have far less vision in a spectacled Norse Gjermendu helmet (sorry about the spelling, that doesn't seem right somehow). Better also than a Norman Great Helm or the Sugarloaf helms for sale at the Mouldyevil Shop. Basically, it's good all round, apart from an overhang by the brim. Put on a broad-rimmed hat and pull the brim's sides down on your head in the same way as this one's brim does, and that is the only visual restriction.
By the way, the only real restricton is heat and breathing, hence they changed to a new helmet shape that we know from sculptures and various extant illustrations. The new shape's face grills have survived however - note the other picture that shows one of these grills. These are about 5mm thick.
It would therefore be possible to make a reconstruction gladiator helm of these types, and fight full contact WMA, and WITHOUT needing to insert modern facemesh...only an issue if you want period armour in WMA I guess.

[Victorius]

[Colin]

[Victorius]

[quote="Colin"]

[pmel018]

Hi Guys
I had thought about this as some sort of WMAish full contact gear. the original wearer had only to consider a very limited number of weapon combinations. Gladiatorial contests had rules and acceptable combinations of combatants. In any case it is a very striking piece that would benefit from closer study with combat in mind. All museums seem to find it quite difficult to effectively contextualise such items, killing (and protection from killing) makes them very uncomfortable. I'll excuse the Royal Armouries in Leeds from that assesmant but even the Keepr of Armour at the Wallace Colection managed a 1 hour lecture on their collection without once mentioning what it was used for An elderly American and I wandered off and hd our own tour after she repeatedly refuse to answer our questions regarding the combat applications of the pieces it became quite game.

Rob, do you have a picture of your replicas???

Phil

[Jonanthebarbarian]

The NZ Gladiator School is engaged in experiential training in Gladiatorial combat and techniques.
As well as helms we are developing the use of the Retiarius net, trident and daggers.
We've modified our locally made Secutor's helm several times and have made our own nets and trident (with help from the Second Legion Augusta) and with input from armourer/reenactor Warren Green.
As know knows for sure how the Roman's performed their combat conjecture and intelligent guess are the current norms. The restricted vision of the helms influence the combat tactics and strategies - especially when you can not actually SEE the weapons you (or your opponents) use for significant moments during combat.
The ancient records state that the Retiarius often spent much of his tome running away from the Secutor during combat. Sounds a liitle bit Monty Pythonesque perhaps? (see Life of Brian DVD)
But the Secutor had to keep out of range of that net!
And the trident spikes were spaced so any two could poke into the helm occular spaces.
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