Some Russian's fighting with steel swords...

[Carl]

[Stuart]

I did fight at NAAMA. I shall also fight at Taupo.

Have a look at this guy who trained many east european groups.
His name is Phil Burthem

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~vikink/broadcast.php

[gt1cm2]

[Gerard Kraay]

[Stuart]

And you have missed the point entirely...Phil Burthem is both a stage fight director - and a battle re-enactor of over 20 years experience. Additionaly he founded the Internation Viking Society, who took re-enactment to Eastern Europe and Russia during the 90`s.
The IVS also toured extensively in Canada and Southern Europe.

[Gerard Kraay]

Well I look forward to seeing some clips that are more then the "hack hack" of the last ones then.

In my experience, stage fighters don’t represent historically accurate fighting 99% of the time on or off the stage and screen.

Feel free to come along anytime and show us your stuff.

Gerard

[Carl]

Ok G lets not get into a discussion over stage combat pretty please.

Stuart.... If Phil Burthem had anything to do with the training of the fighters in the posted video I would be gobsmacked.

What we are saying is simple that video was Brutal, nasty, sloppy and Dangerous, So don't jump in and proclaim that they are actually very skilled and safe fighters (I think your words were along the lines of "Warriors") when the opposite is evident.

When Steve was alive he found a video of some Russian fighting and we both watched it in total shock as one guy had the faceplate of his helmet torn off from a blow that also quite obviously gave him a nasty concussion.

Now Steve forgot more about re-enactment fighting than most people will ever learn and he was stunned at the sheer brutality and disregard to safety that these guys were demonstrating.

The one thing that shocked Steve the most was the fact that the Marshalls only seemed to get involved when someone was injured.

So please dont tell us that we dont know what we are Ignorant just because we are expressing our opinions.

thats T.M.M's job, (now that Colin's gone inactive)


Joke guys Joke

[Inigo]

Those Russians look like they're fighting to me. I believe the rules are "stop hitting them when they go down", which is certainly a more medieval rule set than either the SCA or NAAMA use.

They're not using thrusts, which is probably pretty sensible and, unless I'm mistaken - a reasonably period "rule" for a tournament fought on foot.

There are a few people on this forum, perhaps not used to heavy armoured combat, unjustly critisizing the footwork. But I think, for the most part it looks pretty sensible to me. They're keeping stable body positions and using their armour as armour. They're happily ignoring solid blows that they know their armour can absord. They are using charges and body position in conjunction with solid blows to knock people over.

Aside from the mish-mash of period of armour, I can imagine a foot tournament 600 years ago looking pretty similar to this.

Admit it, they're doing it better than we are.

[stephan]

yep inigo
they kinda are but fuck me if you catch me wearing a pot helm and coif in that

also no pole arms but i guess in that situation tey would lack advantage as i have seen battle feild footage of this sort and heaps of polearms

its the battle of vyborg and such i am talking about

out of intrest would you do this ?

[kiwifruitbat]

Personal opinions, while very valid, can get out of hand. Especially when regarding a different style.

I've taken the time to watch a few other videos of tourneys in that region - Russia, Ukraine, Poland, et al.

Yes they use a far heavier style than we do. Or at least what we used when I was in NZ. Combat styles however should not supersede the one thing that was at the heart of every lesson I had with Steve - safety.

As all of the combatants were fully armoured in metal, harder blows could ergo be used. Had there been the eclectic armour styles (or lack of armour) that we enjoy at NAAMA, I personally believe that blows may well have been pulled. Ifeel Inigo is one of the more qualified people to speak of full power blow stance, at the same time I would like to think I was experienced enough to say if stances slipped during a battle.

And I would challenge anyone here to say that they have been able to keep 100% perfect combat stance 100% of the time in the middle of a pitched battle.

Stephan is quite correct about the pot helm, however if the rules were utterly clear on head shots - direct vertical ONLY (which looked to be the case), thIt may well be quite safe.

Call me a wimp if you like, but at my present skill and comfort level, I would vastly prefer fighting to the touch with metal. Padded rotand cane for full force.

Oh - and for the record, I've trained with some groups while I was in the UK. The core watch-word was always safety, safety safety. And fencing helms were an absolute must during training (even in-club).

No Exceptions.

And when they learned Steve had trained me, they listened to what I had to say in regards to a Sword and Buckler for an advanced class. In was honoured by this and even more by the fact that they took the teachings passed to me by Steve seriously.

Different countries, different styles, the same core love of the sword.

[kiwifruitbat]

I also saw that they were shaking hands, laughing, checking each other. Not speaking Polak or Russian, I can only surmise that they were self-checking that the blows were acceptable and complimenting each others skill.

As we all should do.

[Inigo]

[Carl]

My big question is, What are the rules, In regards to a Kill-hit, I admit in the hectic flash of steel and fury of blows i may have missed it but what are these guys calling as a fair hit.

is it hit-em till they fall over or what?

[Inigo]

[Stuart]

Clearly wisdom comes with an expanding list of international combats.
Travel certainly broadens the mind.
I wonder if some Kiwi-Polish frendship society would be interested in inviting re-enactors from Poland to visit here and demo their style of fighting ?